I’ve not listened to it yet, but I suspect this Peter Attia Podcast with Phil Maffetone will have some relevance to this thread. #144 - Phil Maffetone: Optimizing health and performance through maximal aerobic function - Peter Attia
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I’ve not heard that but have heard and read a fair bit of Phil Maffaetone’s output. Primal Blueprint is a good read for those after the background info to the MAF system, 
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Only slight issue with the MAF system is that it’s not individualised,
It’s just age based.
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Agree. Very general, but all the principles apply once you have your Individual HR sorted. Saying that, I’ve seen him say before that his system is preferable to other systems where individual calculations are made.
That clearly wouldn’t be right for lab/ blood based numbers but the other systems discussed in this thread. 
I thought we didn’t trust these ‘experts’ or ‘scientists’ these days anyway?
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Personally I think people put too much emphasis on which is the best training program. They all work because just about any training where you train at an appropriate intensity that doesn’t overload you will yield results. The best training program is the one you can stick to and achieve consistently (with sufficient stimulus of course) imo
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Yes, and you also get the bias - I was doing X training for years, switched to Y training and got brilliant results, when of course the Y training was simply what they’d neglected in the X training
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Surely overload is the point. But I get the sentiment, consistency is the key, just not very sexy.
A bit like dieting. All diets work, because they provide structure and accountability.
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Yes and I think it stems from a preference precision over effectiveness. Did we do x mins at y intensity rather than am I getting better?
This in turn comes from managing what can be easily measured, rather than what needs to be managed.
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After a toughish 2*20 on the turbo yesterday & up at 4am this morning worrying about my daughter’s commute I ran a slightly hillier 10km at lunch parts of which were calf deep in water.
Result was 2 minutes quicker than Tuesday’s run & HR 1bpm lower.
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How…?!
Getting used to zone 2 running ?
Calf deep in water… ducking hell…!
My debut attempt: 46:52 off 140bpm. Target was 138 but I am ok going 2 higher (140 bpm used to be my ceiling marathon hr for first 20 miles before upping the pace).
Disappointed actually, those marathons used to yield 7:10-7:20 miles, but much slower today.
Good benchmark, route sorted so we’ll see if I can get more pace out next time…
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No wind today so went out for a reasonable effort. Body achy from yesterday’s body weight carnage
Wasn’t going to be setting any PBs but nice to be able to tick along
Little bit slippy in places
42:30
4:15 pace
128HR
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Do you do double training days?
I’d be tempted to get both the hard sessions out of the way in one go. Or maybe follow each by a super easy session with the opposite discipline. Hard bike followed by easy run and Hard run followed by easy bike.
Every day is a double day at the minute
Run in the morning
Bike in the evening
I like doing the hard ones in one day as it means the rest of the aerobic sessions in the week can be given the focus
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Because of the icy roads & snow I couldn’t cycle to the hills for a run this morning so I ran a slow, capped half mara. Not a hilly route but with a slight downhill & tailwind for the first half. Ran on well gritted roads but had to jump onto the icy pavements when it was clear drivers weren’t going to give me a wide berth.
1st 10km 49:28 @ 138bpm
2nd 10km 50:40 @ 139bpm
ETA
So we have, for my own records…
12/01 49:27@ 144
19/01 50:59 @ 145
21/01 48:55 @ 144
24/01 49:28 @ 138 & 50:40 @ 139
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I did something similar on the treadmill last year
Got to 12 kph at 130 ish, presently every run I do is 142 average and crap pace.
Nice to see improvements can be made outside, well done I’ll be copying you in the next few weeks, trying to find a flat ish 5 k near me.
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Sort of just gave this a go. When I headed out it wasnt the plan, but I just sort of nudged up the pace a bit above my normal 5:00/km and 130-135ish HR on my easy runs. My HR was still generally well under the conceptual cap, plus it wasnt the most conducive course with some lumps in it where HR rose. But I thought it’d give a loose benchmark.
46:54 with a 140bpm average and a 154bpm max (which I probably only hit for a few seconds. I had 4km splits where the ave HR for that km was above 145. So a fair bit in reserve under the 154 calculated limit.
I reckon on a flat course, in slightly more spritely shoes (not vapors), I’d be down under 42:30ish. Could maybe mix it into a long run at some point where the plan is to generally run easy the whole time.
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Knocked out a 42m15s 10km this evening. Can’t claim it belongs in this thread though - average HR 153 which is mid zone 3 for me. But it felt really nice to turn on the gas a little after a day sitting down, pushing but not really straining.
Edit - strava saying 42m35s and 156bpm
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26/01 50:13 @ 139 flat course, sleety conds
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