CICO is Lies - Dr Noakes

It might be impractical (I don’t count calories) but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Tried MyFitnessPal and it’s impossible to use it accurately over a longer period of time without purely eating food from packets, which would be a mistake.


take two identical looking apples of exact shape and size. One could have 20+ calories more due to the water quality, amount of sun, time on tree, time on shelves but tracking food intake is still a good method to get individuals to realise how much they are actually eating. When its written down they think, oh shit I didnt realise i actually eat ~200kcals at 10pm every night by having that hot milk or wow Ive had ~200kcals of snacks today and Id forgotten about it

1 Like

In honesty I don’t think we’re disagreeing.

MFP is good to kick start a change to habit, do it for a few days or a week and learn which bad habits are causing you to overeat. Then you need to change habits long term and stop tracking.

I personally like intermittent fasting. I find it easier to eat nothing in the evening otherwise I reach for more unhealthy foods/alcohol. I also wake up less hungry if I stop eating earlier, hate having big meals after 8pm. Just don’t sleep as well and wake up feeling grotty.

1 Like

The basics haven’t changed. Not all calories are equal in the way they are utilised by the body. I’ve already pointed out, as have others, that this is an esoteric discussion. Realistically, implementing it to this level isn’t practical for 99.9% of people. Even at the start of the podcast, Noakes spells out just how difficult it is to monitor and measure calorie consumption and utilisation.

What do you want from this discussion? It feels like deja vu.

1 Like

He wants us to say he is right, we are all wrong even though we are all largely in agreement that there’s a lot of complexity to how the body works but that generally people get fat because they eat too much cake and drink too much beer :wink:





But crisps/chocolate are so damn delicious when washed down with an IPA/cider/red wine :yum::drooling_face:


I have seen a few studies that show fatties under estimate their caloric intake and flacos over estimate.

I do find the zealous manner of the LCHF crowd weird. Many used to claim that you could consistently over eat calories so long as it was fat and not carb’s and not put on fat. All the studies I have seen that show metabolic benefits and weight loss have a nutrient rich diet with a significant calorie deficit, despite varyng carb/fat macro distribution.

Worst example of LCHF I see was someone telling people that the worst type of food you could eat was fruit which is dreadful advice as fruit has so many benefits and the sugar content is offset by the fibre. Its why diabetics can eat fruit but not drink fruit juice. I will say the only diet I ever see that seemed to have good intentions was Paleo, and whilst the message was mixed and confused due to people putting their own spin on it , essentially it was eat good quality natural food


Most black and white statements like that are usually stoopid. Some fruit is better than others but you shouldn’t only eat fruit because it does have a high sugar content. Far better to get a balance between fruit and vegetables. Oh there we are, back to a sensible normal recommendation…


i’ve heard people say that too…. also had someone at the weekend trying to convince me that I should go full on LCHF, as it makes IM fuelling really easy, as you can ignore food during the race and just burn fat reserves. I do my research, so understand that its absolutely not that simple, but this individual will destroy someones race eventually by giving them shite nutrition advice.


I have a mate who is LCHF who doesn’t eat fruit because it has ‘high’ sugar content. He thought I ate too much fruit as I do snack on fruit during the day when we were in the office. He is over weight, does little exercise and was borderline diabetic before he switched to LCHF. I am none of those things. What he really meant was that he shouldn’t snack on fruit. He has been LCHF for many years, before he switched he as bloaty fat he lost quite a lot of fat but he is still over weight. (I have several mates who are LCHF)

ETA: Typical office snacking would have been x1 banana, apple, plum or peach spread out across the day.

Edited to correct my dumb LCFF error - I was on my phone.


amen brother


It’s not about counting CI/CO…

“I had to get my carb intake down to 25g per day”

well done Noakes…i thought his brother was better…here’s one i made earlier…


Ah, but because he drinks extra virgin Olive Oil by the litre, he will live to 100.


Sorry I am being thick and I don’t know that one.

Low Carb Fat Free. Or water as its better known. :joy:


:rofl::rofl: No sorry corrected I was on my phone, should have been LCHF.



Watching a Jason Feung interview last night - was saying that caloric restriction is effective very minimally in the short term but as an example he said 500 calories less doesn’t work - clinically been proven if the insulin response is the same. He says you could eat 500 calories less a day but still eating the same carbs ( not all carbs are equal obvs ) while insulin levels are high then it will be still stored as fat.

I don’t think necessarily they extol HFLC so much as time restricted feeding - ie fasting or just choosing your food more carefully - it’s a paloelithic way of eating. One powerful argument is that the human body has evolved over millions of years to eat this way and hasn’t adapted to agricultural revolution - 1000 years ( only 600 generations ) but more importantly the industrial revolution ( 10 generations ago ) where flour etc was ground up even more refined. Genetically body hasn’t evolved yet to eat 3 meals a day with snacks essentially partic with all the sugar and added stuff, preservatives and factory made ‘vegetable oils’

It’s not rocket scenic. If you want to access your fat stores - fasting is one route ( with associated health benefits ). When you’re running/ cycling you access fat stores and muscle glycogen anyway depending on effort, duration etc … My conclusion is you find what fits - I think if you’re training then it’s not such an issue - my go to meal the night before mega mental long runs in my thirties was 3 pints of Stella, a fish supper and a packet of biscuits. Ran my best times and highest weekly mileage … but worth dipping a toe into if you want to maybe control weight if not working out, or maybe want to give the body a shunt for a month to lose some weight.

Fruit is interesting- suggested only eat fruit seasonally - bears and fruit and all that

Oh yeah additionally - fast feasting promotes production of human growth hormone which prevents ageing, and don’t eat too much protein - increases another hormone - M tor I think it’s called - which stimulates cancer cells etc