If anyone finds my swim please let me know

That’s definitely my problem. But it’s largely a case of aerobic capability. I’ve never felt comfortable before upping the stroke rate too much as I just fatigue too quickly. I think I’ve built enough of a swim base this summer to try and attack things a bit more. My last OW swim showed that where I wasn’t too far off some early summer wetsuit times, but this time I’d done it just in a swimskin.

The water in Nice is quite choppy. I’m going to see what happens if I push it harder here. Hopefully I don’t drown!

My attacking it only changes stroke rate from 58 to about 62, and no way I can hold it for long periods. Hence the pull and paddles work so I can comfortably last 3.8km without a drop off.

For reference I’ve not used them for the 7 weeks since Bolton, and before then was probably using for around 20% of total volume.

that’s really low for a swimmer, You must be doing 15SPL for 25? The minimum I try to get swimmers is 70SPM, and when you are talking top squad Regional + swimmers stroke rate is one of the best gains to make as DPS is already pretty good.

I find paddles slow my stroke, certainly the big dinner-plate ones. The finger ones make little difference to my SPM. I probably need to get some mid-sized ones tbh, and ditch the big ones. My OW swims in the Scillies last week were all 74-78spm (Garmin measured). If anything, I think I try to make up for my lack of technique & fitness with a higher turnover! (AOS). My fastest swim was 2600m @ 1:32 pace, so going for it more than I would in a Tri.

My stroke rate is mid 60s. But I am 6’5’’ and 6’8’’ arm span so its hard to get that up by much although it is something I have worked on in the past. Choppy water I find it hard to speed it up and then have to resort to a bit of a straight arm slap to get the turn over up.

Stroke rate is not my issue, it is around 72spm, it is just inefficient. May try more time with pull buoy and paddles to see how it impacts stroke rate and speed

Your issue is probably body (leg) position. Don’t you have cyclists legs?

I’m at about 15spl according to my garmin - any suggestions for how to get it up (other than just take more strokes!)

is that 15 stroke cycles per length (usual Garmin) which i call 30 SPL or real which is 15 individual arm pulls per length? If the later that’s a good distance per stroke and time to work on the stroke rate as strokes per length of 15-17 is a good target. If the former, well it could be anything but I would suggest looking at body position as a good starter. Think of the acronym “BLABT” body position, legs, arms,breathing and timing as the order of correction. many are interlinked as well so sorting one could fix something else. If body position is poor, just practice floating and keeping the legs up, or push off and glides to teach the body to recognise a good hydrodynamic position. Your training peak figures will take a hit :wink: but your swim will improve!

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Yeah 14spl or around 32spl for 50m pool going steady.
Even back when racing 400m I was around 35-38spl in races, never thought at the time that was any lower than the people around me.
I’m 5’11 and thinner build than most 200/400m swimmer so can’t claim strength either.

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Agree, sorry I was unclear. I use paddles to develop arm endurance to last 3.8km without fatiguing, not to improve cadence. I’ve never thought about cadence until now.

What’s your 3.8km time anyway? Pretty sure you don’t need to worry about anything until T1!

Thorpe raced at 32SPL (LCM) and trained as low as 24 . Shows his stroke rate to get the times he was swimming at. I have seen AOS that do 32 in a 25m pool which is why technique trumps fitness. Efficiency is key to setting up the rest of these day.

49:xx both times out. No dreams of ever being Amberger so I’m happy maintaining that with 2hrs a week, leaving time to keep working on the bike.

That said, if @hammerer is offering advice I’ll gladly listen!

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Just looked, and the “better” OWS I had recently (in just swimskin) was 35spm on the Garmin, so about the 70 you suggest when considering both arms.

I was noticeably upping the stroke rate for that though, so would assume my natural pool stroke rate is nearer 60-65. The Garmin lists my SCM pool strokes rates at about 29, but that’s going to be suppressed a bit by the push off each length.

It lists me as average of 11.3spl SCM (so really c22), and for comparison, 50.4 (so 101) for the most recent swim at the 100yd Tooting lido. Maintaining DPS as I fatigue is the thing our club swim coach is always reinforcing with me. I tend to thrash more as I tire

Fatigue is when our brain reverts to “natural” which is why I know these one off swim4cash type video sessions aren’t worth as much as they seem when you do them. It takes at least 10000 perfect repetitions for an action to become ingrained and whilst you will be able to consciously make the change early on, when the brain is starved of oxygen the body reverts to type. Popov once commented on what made the Soviet swimmers doing good, and during training they always swam fresh with best form. He said they would literally climb out after the warm up of they didn’t have form or were fatigued. This is one of BS’s pull buoy arguments, better to swim more good stroke with good body position than swim fatigued and not relaxed.

For you I’d work on that 22 over winter. I’m a big fan of lots of 25s counting strokes, get it down staying fresh. Go off 30secs s&r or a 5 sec ri for 16 reps holding sub 20 strokes, and say holding 15/17/20secs or 22secs etc. one kick off the wall and once you get to 15/17/20strokes kick in to end. Forces you to make the distance. Try things out to see if your stroke count goes down. Use a tempo trainer if you want to hold a set stroke rate also

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Similar idea, my coach was a big fan of efficiency 50s, some people use golf metaphor - descending 50s where total score is time plus number of strokes. Idea being to set off steady and gradually speed up to over say 6-8x50s without letting stroke count increase too much. Learn might be able to get to 95% speed with only one extra stroke, but needed to add on another extra stroke or two to get that last 0.5s.

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Yes I use swolf as a measure, usually in main set without their knowledge.
With all training set a target, so for junior triathletes academy selection the gold points total is always multiple of 1.10 per 100 typically 200 for youth 400 for juniors. (1.15 for girls) (super series QF is a SCM 400 or 800 with similar time requirements ) I start at 16 X 25 holding 17 seconds 17 strokes with rest as required, drop rest until they go off 5sec then we then do 50s, 100,s etc until they can hold a pace for a broken 800 for SS qualification (100s off 10 secs) at about 7/10 effort. Typically know they are ready then.

I am very similar to Adam in pace and progress this year. One of the drivers for me to improve was to stick to sprint distance this year instead of 70.3 and xterra, I had stayed away from this distance for 3 years as my swim wasn’t competitive enough for me to close the gap on the guys in my AG.
Working on my swimming has meant the gap this year has closed on the same guys and challenging for top 3 overall (my bike and run hides this shortfall until you look at the splits) I am committed to 2 masters sessions a week and one on my own. This is the most I have done since my IM days and despite racing short stuff I am confident my swimming will be better for coming back to 70.3 next year.

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