Impressive times off the distance! I guess the aerobic training from the other disciplines maintains fitness, but I think for longer distances you need the run specificity to avoid injury and promote good fatigue resistance.
The main reason for switching to 20M in warm up races was that due to my lack of speedwork (I assume), there is not much difference in pace between 5k and HM so a HM feels like ~80min sprint! 20M feels more relaxed and I can be reasonably confident that the pace for an untapered 20M effort can be sustained for 26.2 come race day. To be honest the availability of local 20M races which are logistically easy also plays into it
I’ve switched to doing longer running distances now -
Aiming for 75mpw by the end of the year.
But happy to knock that on the head if injury comes knocking.
Thought I’d register and drop back in and say hello. This forum is a lot slicker isn’t it.
Yes, the marathon was (is) my nemesis. In the last 12 months I have a 33:38 10k and a 73:47 HM, however VLM 2018 was a 2.49. Albeit the hot weather added 3-5 mins in my opinion.
I’ve got Dublin in October so hoping to start the build for that once Roth is out of my legs. It was my first long distance tri and I was pretty happy to run 3.09. Conditions were fairly kind and it felt surprisingly comfortable.
Hi Grifter, I noticed Roth, that was a great effort.
For me there is the very simple correlation of run more. faster. none of it needs to be that quick
I used to commute in London 20k each way. That combined with probably 80k -100k a week meant I could run sub 3. very little speed work, parkrun was 18:30 If I did one I reckon.
The more marathons I have run I could start that 80 later and later, ie February for London, right up to 2 weeks of dedicated running to go 2:56 at Nottingham the other year. Clearly I have a lot of residual base lying around!
However to get quicker, ie sub 2:50 I have had to push out to 120k+ for about 2 months prior each week and therefore have more consistent builds.
My 2 sub 2:45 runs have both had at least 1 100 mile weeks in there. The best one also had a lot of 5k races as well which was essentially my speed work. Also the commute is now gone so I am pretty much a dedicated runner until I wrap my head around doing another IM.
Hi all - first time posting on the new forum. Not been up to a great deal recently (not finished a tri since 2012 and not started one since 2015?). Children do take up a lot of time don’t they.
Anyway, I’ve just read through the whole thread and think I’ll join for a bit of motivation. I doubt that sub3 is on the cards currently but never know. Also thinking Chelmsford on 20th October should be good for targeting (and I’ve done it before). So, current shape is not great. Haven’t managed any consistent training for what seems like year now and only really running at the moment. Have blagged 100 miles at Enduroman in May and 82 miles in a 24hr race in Suffolk a month ago - both off approx 1 run/week and nothing else so still got a lot of endurance banked away.
So… About 13 weeks out have dived back in and will be spending the next 4 weeks getting the mileage back up ready to train without injuring myself. And then the simple plan is 8 weeks of 60mpw at avg pace of 7:30min/mile. Doesn’t matter how the 60mpw is run (intervals, long run, parkrun, whatever) as long as over the week it works out to 7:30min/mile pace. In the past this equates to 2 speed sessions and a parkrun each week and everything else at 8min/mile. Let’s see how I get on.
Good to see all the old names on here again. Always in awe at the speed you lot run shorter stuff at
Good to see you again Hillwall. I had noticed your name popping up on strava again, and not just for random, crazy 100km+ runs across Norfolk that come out of nowhere!
Good plan though. Like you say, tons of endurance banked in the legs. It’s just priming them for the inevitable hammering that a road mara brings!
OK. So parkrun this morning was my first ‘quick’ run in ages and it did not go well. A very slow 22:07 means 3 months out I can’t even manage 1 mile at sub3 marathon pace.
Conditions weren’t great (windy and hot) but it felt like I was running in slow-mo. But, I’m sure a few speed sessions will remind my body how to get my HR up, and this in turn will filter through to marathon pace. I don’t need to outright speed some of you guys have as I can maintain the pace once I have it. Hopefully, over the next few weeks I can get down to 20 mins and then I reckon anywhere under 19 mins would be good.
(Stupidly) Tried this yesterday, with only one 30km in my legs and no particular marathon work, apart from a couple of 45-50 mile weeks recently.
Set off “easy” and pooed my pants when I saw a 3:48/km!
Pulled it back and was 3:58/km - 4:17/km until the half marathon (wind, mud and rain dictated the pace here, not me!) Went through the half in 1:27:xx and thought “Game on, tampon! I only need a 1:32:xx half here and I’m laughing…”
21-25km was into the wind for one km of the lake, then onto the 3km cross country course, so I slowed here.
Started picking it back up to 30km, then I Slipped at around 31km and thought I’d tore my hammy…had to walk it off, then found it hard to get running again…
…though that is a lame excuse for not running enough to take a marathon on.
Bravado and an expensive pair of trainers do not get you a sub3
Training might.
Ended up with a 3:22:xx
This was my second “stand-alone” marathon, the first one being Luton in December 2007, where it snowed, hailed and was windy and I managed a 3:28:xx.
My PB of ~3:08 was splits taken during a 40 mile trail race across Derbyshire, where I was run/walking.
I enjoyed the day and learned how not to pace a marathon, don’t bank time up in the first half, get those long runs done, get those marathon paced runs done and forget speedwork.
And half marathon doesn’t translate to marathon.
The plan continues to Chester Marathon in October.
I’ve read this a couple of times but can’t see what time you did? I think as long as you learn from it, it’s not a wasted experience.
And as holds true for most of us, train the things you dislike / avoid / are worst at. I rarely miss out on long runs but often miss out on speed work. For you it may be the other way around. But definitely don’t try and bank too much time in the first half.
I am all in on this for 2020. I plan to focus on sub 3 training a week after IM Wales, with my target race being Edinburgh on May 24th. I have booked my entry, flights, and hotel.
Current PB is my 3:24:something at Roth this year, but I have never run a stand alone marathon…
Best half was a 1:24:53.
I have done two 50 milers last year, and have good run endurance. I just need to cut out swimming, reduce cycling, and do a lot of slow, steady miles over the winter. I am confident I can go sub 3 if I remain injury free, and build up the mileage. I will spend about 5 months trail running (Oct-Feb), with a trail ultra in early Feb as a little training race to whet the appetite. I may then do a half marathon in March or April as I start layering in speed work and more tarmac running. Not sure what peak mileage I will target, but probably 50-60 miles as I can typically do 30 at the weekend when I am near peak.
Good luck Hewligan, but I think I’d give myself a couple more weeks off to recover from Wales. It’s going to be a long wait until late May. Especially after doing Roth as well.
Mixing it up with trail running should be useful but I’d say you do need to get long runs on tarmac with that constant pace, as that’s what you’ll need on the day.
If you can do 1:24 for a half you should be able to break 3.
You’ve got a looooong time until next may. Much better to slowly build into an 18 week marathon specific plan starting next year. Just take it easy and build to reasonable volume to avoid injury when the plan starts. Real danger of getting bored and losing sight of your goal if you start too far out.
Best of luck, however you approach it.
You could read Advanced-Marathoning by Pfitzinger and Douglas (P&D), well proven training plans
You are both totally correct. In actuality what I will do is have about a month of entirely leisure exercise. Riding my bike with my son, trail walks, some CrossFit to get a few muscles back, etc. But I have to do something or I go stir crazy!
Not counting DNF’s due to injuries it was my last failed sub 3 attempt.
From what I remember it was flat, so fast. I dont remember it particuarly twisty. Soulless is places if support is your thing.
However the finish was something else, You finished in a hall with banging music and flashing lights. Being an old git now maybe it would annoy me, but at the time it was pretty cool
Afterwards, whilst walking to the a restaurant, we walked passed a bunch of guys jacking up. They were so fucked, stumbling around, quite scary in some ways and thus is my overriding memory of Frankfurt, not the run. I would not go back despite the fact I normally like to go back to places where I have “unfinished business”.
So…how’s it going folks?
I skipped six miles last week as I was pooped.
Back in the game this week and building up to four 20+ mile runs, it’ll be the first time I’ve done this many single long ‘uns.
Just hoping not to get injured.
I’m eyeing up a flat half marathon about six miles from home over August Bank Holiday - cheep and cheerful for a good hit out
I’m in week 8 of 18… first 5 weeks went well, got up to 65k a week and an 18 mile long run. Then 2 (scheduled) easier weeks of 20 and 25 miles but that did include one 3hr+ run on the North Cornwall coast.
Working around summer holidays but now have 2x 70-75k weeks planned with 20 milers scheduled to include some MP. Then a couple more disjointed weeks allowing for holidays before a 5 week block through September when the sh1t gets real…and then a 2 week taper.
It all looks good written down… let’s see
