i’ve just committed to my weekly tri club swim group, which is coached by one of the guys who make the 50-55 AG looks easy, Paul Lunn…. who you’ll have raced against a few time and know, as i’ve seen you commenting on his FB posts in the past…. he’s gone sub 9 a shed load of times, and is an utter machine.
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Haha, everyone is scared of Paul Lunn’s splits. But he’s so bloody good, I don’t see him as competition, as I’ve absolutely no hope of getting anywhere near him. My pal Scott Whittlestone on the other hand is hunting him down, and Matt is hunting Scott down. I’m just their waterboy 
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Tim Don nailed it for me…. “shit, that boy can run”…… 
(that ignores his 3:40 100mile TT, so he can ride quite quickly too…… )
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All the best. Hope you all crack it!
I’d don’t have the time to even attempt it (nor the fitness no doubt). However, I’m tempted to give it a go across 3 days. Guesstimates would be
Swim 55
Bike 5:10
Run 2:55
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Also following with some (selfish) interest. You’ve got me inspired.
My relationship to this forum has always leaned toward the reading rather than writing side of things but these days I’m struggling to even keep up with what’s being written. That said, I’ve enjoyed following the progress of both @Matthew_Spooner and @Chriswim over recent years and will be rooting for both of you on your quests to go sub 9.
I’m another one aging up next year to 45-49 but have found myself questioning things lately. For as long as I can remember Kona has always been a big (major) driving force for me in terms of my motivation. Even after I went in to Kona 2015 the aim had always been to get back there and that was definitely what I’d had in my mind as a goal for 2022 with a view to qualifying at Bolton in July.
However, something has happened to me since I’ve started getting older. I’m suddenly terrified about retirement (from work rather than triathlon) and more precisely the concern that I’ll never be able to retire. I spent my adolescence and early 20’s successfully ruining my life and so I didn’t start any kind of proper work till my mid 20s. I worked predominantly in the NHS for 15 years or so until I couldn’t stand it anymore and left to work independently in 2018. Although I’ve been infinitely happier since then I’ve not exactly been paying attention to things like pensions and have only recently realised that my 15 years or so of NHS contributions isn’t going to get me very far.
Suddenly a repeat trip to Kona seems a long way down my list of financial priorities and this in turn begins to raise questions in my mind that I’ve not faced for a long time… why?
I did my first Ironman in Wales in 2022 and very quickly became completely consumed. Portugal last October was my 13th Iron distance race so I’ve been around the block a few times. I’m entered for Bolton and Wales this year although as mentioned above, my hope had been to race Bolton and KQ, then defer my entry for Tenby to 2023 and head to Hawaii rather than Wales at the end of this year.
Back in 2019 I went 9.05 at Barcelona and insisted at the time that I’d not go chasing the sub 9 but having binned the KQ goal I’m starting to reconsider this.
I’ve got very mixed feelings about Barcelona. I wrote about that experience on here at the time. I swam very well (for me) 1.03, bike was 4.37 and run 3.18. Apart from missing sub 9 by less than 6 mins the whole experience was totally overshadowed by the ubiquitous deliberate drafting. I was a ball of fury by the time I got off the bike and I did not use that anger to my advantage. Instead, I allowed myself to run a crazy angry pace for the first 10 miles and then inevitably blew up at 16 miles. I know that I had a 3.10 in me that day had I stuck to the plan and not let my emotions get the better of me… Coulda woulda shoulda.
Anyway the questions I now have running around in my mind are:
Should I race Bolton as planned and try and get an AG podium (something that has still alluded me and which I’d definitely like to achieve one day). And then transfer from Tenby 2022 to Barcelona 2022 and aim for the sub 9?
Will Barcelona always have an asterix next to it because of the draft fest?
Should I transfer from Bolton to either, Austria, Switzerland, Vittoria Gastiez or Tallinn all of which seem to have some sub 9 potential (and then race Wales later in the year for fun?)
Any thoughts?
In terms of my limiters I’m somewhat similar to @Matthew_Spooner in that I need to work on my swim. I’m normally a 1.05 – 1.06 guy and that will need to be closer to 1.02 for sub 9 to be realistic. The second limiter is my run. In the 13 Ironman’s I’ve done I’ve ran 3.18 a total to 6 times. Although this sounds consistent, some of my 3.18’s have been on hard courses. I know I have a 3.10 in me if I can swim easy and bike within my capabilities.
I guess my approach will be much more aligned with @Chriswim . With two kids and being self-employed I’ve not got the time, money or patience to be doing regular 20+ hours a week. Nothing but admiration for @Matthew_Spooner capacity to log those kind of hours. In my build I’ll be averaging about 14 hours peaking at around 19 for one or two weeks tops.
In relation to swimming I’ve always thought that what I need to get good is to be injured! So many stories I’ve heard (like @Poet ) involved athletes being unable to run or bike and being forced to do nothing but swim. My guess is that this not only increases swim volume but means that this swim volume is done in a more recovered state. I remember seeing a video with Sebi Kienle when he made some comment along the lines of ‘I know my running injury must be starting to heal because my swim splits are getting slower”. I find that even if I put my swimming at the beginning of the day I’m still carrying fatigue from cycling and (especially) running and this fatigue makes it harder to develop and maintain proper form. I know that in addition to this I just don’t enjoy swimming enough to really dedicate myself to it. I’ll be trying to do what I can swimming 3 times a week.
I remember when I was in my early 20’s spending my life in nightclubs drinking, smoking and taking drugs and knowing that one day that would have to stop. At the time I had assumed that stopping doing those things would feel like a loss so it was a real surprise to me when I stopped because those activities had lost their significance for me. I think there is something similar that’s happened for me with the Kona dream. I turned down a slot I 2019 and was completely heartbroken. It’s come as a surprise to me that letting the dream of returning to Kona go feels like the right (and obvious) thing to do rather than a wrench.
Getting slightly off the topic now but in hindsight I can see that my life has been a succession of projects in which I’ve had to learn for myself the things my parents didn’t do a very good job of teaching me when I was growing up. Learning how to eat properly, learning the emotional value of work, learning how to be mentally healthy, learning how to be physically healthy and now (finally!!!) learning how to be financially healthy. I relation to this I’ve got a lot to learn.
I think that had I not already got entries for Bolton and Tenby I’d be looking at lower key lower cost events and I’m pretty sure that’s where my future lies. While I’ve got these entries however I’m going to try to work out the best way to use them to try and round off my Ironman career with a sub 9. Any thoughts about what events to target for sub 9 always appreciated. (Ideally, I’d be thinking Roth Sweden or Copenhagen but they’re already full)
@chickenboy - you getting on the sub 9 bandwagon?
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At the end of your racing career, only you know how legit you raced, so in a way it shouldn’t matter what course you’re on.
But, I too was a “ball of fury” at Barca. 
There will be different kinds of cheating, maybe less visible, at courses like Lanza and Wales - but it will still go on.
If you know you’re good, and the people whose opinion you respect know you are good, take the race that suits you best and go for it.
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I was a ball of fury at Barca, doubly so after Italy and resolved never to do another flat fast Euro race (and I haven’t).
To be honest @Mr-me I’d chase the AG podium on an honest course (Wales, Bolton would be ideal) rather than a time target which may be conditions dependent.
But only you would know what burns inside enough to provide motivation.
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Interesting 1/5/3 being reference. I don’t think I’m being bias (although the room will likely think so), but a one hour swim is still very relatively poor compared to a 3hr ironman split in my opinion. Equivalent to a 2:40 open Mara which runners would think of as good. No swimmer is giving any respect for a 1hr swim (sorry!)
77 for me, but I’ll keep trying
As for the weight discussion, 181cm and 75-76kg stable weight. Not weighed myself for 10 months. I’ve previously tried to get down to about 72-73 which seems my limit, lowest I’ve got to is 68 when ill. Generally very healthy diet but too many sweet treats when they’re available at work.
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Good Q. Sorry to jump on it, interested to hear Matt’s answer.
My approach is far less structured, mostly due to my work rota making it impossible to do something so nicely structured, but lots of current literature (John Kiely) is suggesting similar approach. Mine is essentially whatever level of training I can do consistently, with recovery weeks (or few days) when needed.
I do a block of nights every 3 weeks, either 4 days M-T or 3x F-S. Likewise if I’m working 3-12 PM’s they’re very different to working 8-5s when I can do decent session before and after separated by “recovery”.
If I was working M-F days (or on gardening leave) I’d be much more structured.
But as for micro-meso-macro jumbo, are we guilty of over complicating this?
My thinking is a bit of all intensities all year round, with a shift from polarised to more race specific closer to race day, with some regular recovery breaks as needed. Helps that I have a secondary goal of trying to do well in state series which progress sprints-Olympics-70.3 over the next four Months.
If coached and regular life routine I’m sure there are benefits to being more regimented, maybe 3 days on 1 off (not literally, but easy day), or working round longer cycles.
As for meso/macro cycles, m next thought would be the idea of super-fatigue and super-compensation. I don’t agree with the idea of putting yourself in a “hole”, beyond maybe 1-2 heaviest weeks at peak training. I’m closer to the idea that I want to get noticeably better in training very regularly with constant ongoing work and simultaneous recovery. Simpler the better for self-coached?
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The real question everyone wants the answer too… 
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Super interesting @Mr-me, you’re clearly very talented, and on the right course, right conditions there’s a sub 9 there.
Sadly I think drafting is becoming the norm, lots of it in Mallorca last year too. I don’t have an answer other than you can only race your race and come away satisfied in the knowledge that it was honest.
Re sun 9, NO!!! . I’m pretty certain I have a sub 9:15-9:30 in me on a fast course. But I just don’t have the IM run legs to get close to that. Maybe at Copenhagen, deffo not Utah 
I’m cool with it, and I thank my lucky stars that I’m still able to do this shit
Good luck with your training.you on strava?
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That has made a huge difference to me in the last 12 months and I think more resilient.
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I only want to do Kona once, and having qualified, I am not overwhelmed by it. The Sub 9 target feels much more exciting
Financially I’ve been really lucky over the past 5 years, while living in Switzerland, but the future looks less financially secure. I have decided to treat the next 5 months like a sabatical, its a genuine once in a lifetime opportunity.
I don’t think that Switzerland is an easy sub 9 course, the climbs are too big. Of the courses you listed, Austria is the one I would race, its even possible to drive from the UK. Another one that you may want to consider is IM Finland as I think that this could be a fast course. Barcelona certainly has sub 9 potential, it wasn’t an option for me as it’s too close to Kona, however, I had pretty much rulled it out for a number of reasons, but mainly because people say that it is not a great race, however, if I did sub 9 at Barcelona it would still be a 100% genuine performance, no asterix
I have never raced on any course more than once, Roth will be my first. I really, really enjoyed the race. Not only is it a nice course, but the whole town make athletes feel really special. Barcelona and Copenhagen should be faster courses, but for some reason I want to do it at Roth.
It sounds to me that you are ready to take a break from the Ironman brand, I am the same. I have no issue with the company, they do a fantastic job, however, there is much more to experience rather than just chasing Ironmans. If this is the case, you should race in Tenby, ive not done it, but its supposed to be the best Ironman event in Europe. Leave on a high note and look to do some cheaper, more challenging and more interesting races in 2023
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Estonia seems to be the other fast Euro course and the temperatures reported there seem manageable as well. Either way we will be following your journey. I did the 4 month furlough into gardening leave last year and the training went up and PBs set but recovery was the most important aspect I needed to factor in
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Barcelona will always have an asterix due to the drafting won’t it?
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No…just because I have a 9:28 there makes no bearing on my opinion
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It does seem to come up a lot, I think Florida has a similar reputation.
100% agree with that.
Even though people don’t draft there, we’ve all heard from the Pro’s how much benefit they perceive they’re getting even at 20m.
I think AGers draft zone is 12m:
The bicycle draft zone is 12 meters long, measured from the leading edge of the front wheel and extending towards the back of the bike (6 bike lengths of clear space between bikes). Athletes may enter the draft zone of another athlete when passing and must continuously progress through the draft zone. A maximum of 25 seconds will be allowed to pass through the zone of another athlete.
I got a massive benefit on the second lap of 113 back in 2019 by “slingshotting” slower athletes, so I reckon this could be massive at at larger, flat M-Dot.
Zero chance of it at Outlaw. It’s so lonely out there 
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Yeah not much chance at Wales. Pesky Hills and corners 
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@Mr-me - I’d go for sub-9 
It’s the same with podium, you can’t control who turns up/races well on the day.
So time/position goals are both poor goals (from an execution perspective)
All you can do is follow the process, derive goals from that and see what will happen (I know nobody does this!)
For example;
Swim; relax, find feet, relax, get into pace practised in lakes and pools. Relax.
T1: focussed and strong. No messing.
Bike: 78% FTP for 284TSS
T2: vas up, shoes on, grab a gel and visor. Jog out
Run: walk the first minute and get that HR down, along with a gel. Then run nine minutes at that HR you’ve found in training. Repeat until 32km. Run last 10km for the glory.
The end.
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