My understanding is that yes it does correct poor body position in the same way a wetsuit does.
So does it follow that if you have good body position, a pull bouy will slow you down? I’d guess it does, but as we’ve already established, this isn’t my chosen specialist subject. 
Everyone I ever swam with as kids was slower with a PB compared to swim. I’ve only met masters swimmers/triathletes who are faster with.
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@Chriswim would like to qualify this with: “I swim under 50 minutes for 3.8km, which is easy, for me”
The people who he swam with as kids, are not the same kids you and I know 
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a pull buoy can show a number of errors in a stroke so it depends. Obviously a decent club swimmer will have an efficient powerful kick, isolating that will knock times. When you consider i know swimmers that have done around 70 second 100’s kick with board you can see the pull will slow them. Sometimes though being slower with PB can be a sign that you do not have good core strength, or basically do not engage the core, so go all snake. The kick may be countering this making you more streamlined without the PB. Generally most AOS will be faster with PB though as it brings the legs up and stops the kick which could actually be creating a lot of drag with scissoring for instance.
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Touché, but I think the bigger point is child onset compared to adult onset rather than a reflection of speed. I understand people who joke that swimmers are cheats in triathlon, because AOS will never learn the same degree of natural body position.
Lots of the kids I swam with at smaller local club would struggle to swim 55 or 60 minutes, but will have far better skills than some world class triathletes getting through by fitness.
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Was going to post a second reply going into it, but thankfully @Hammerer has beaten me to it
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We use fins for a few reasons. We use them for full stroke basically for speed, so can help the body learn how it feels at a higher speed, then take them off and try to hold DPS and velocity. They aid ankle mobility, and it just speeds up kick sets for weaker kickers. I found a good resource on youtube from Bill Sweetenham called “Swim Fast” , worth a look at the drill progressions there as well. There’s one bit that mentions using fins a lot for swimming as it helps with muscle memory due to the heightened awareness of what the body is doing. Bit like paddles in that respect
Ever tried band only? Will really highlight if you snake and help engage that core. People spend £££ on aero bike, yet don’t think about staying in that streamline position in water that’s 1000X denser than air.
Obviously I’m not saying all pull should be band only, just that it can be useful.
Same up above think I saw something from @Midlife_Trisis coming into the thread and noticing we had talked a lot about kick training. Yes we have recently, but that doesn’t mean it’s more important than things we’re not talking about. I’d still maintain that isolated kick is a fairly minor part of triathlon swim training, and only then as part of body position rather than propulsion at our level.
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Lots of interesting forks on the thread.
Torpedo drill - I was doing this on Friday as well as some back kicks and side kicks. I can kick fine on my side, back and front, but I really notice on the torpedo drill that I basically stall when I transition from side to front. Does anyone else notice this or can you basically maintain steady progress while rotating the torpedo?
Obviously I’m either breaking the streamline and creating drag, or need to think about my foot position to figure out why I’m losing propulsion. Feels like this might be an interesting thing to play around with next swim as it might be similar in the full stroke. Just wanted to check first.
I’ve sprained both ankles badly, more than once each, so yes my ankle flexibility is poor.
I’ve never tried band only, it sounds horrendous.
I’ll give it a go tomorrow
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I’m just the opposite. I sprained them so many times, they’re like a rag doll now, I think there’s only skin holding my feet on.
I’ve never timed myself kicking but generally go pretty well when we do it at club sessions so maybe that’s the key.
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My first few steps when I get up in the morning are pretty stiff, due to my ankles!
I swam 1h18m in Hamburg (around 2m/100m pace) although it was a terrible swim, normally I have been swimming around 1:50/100m in 70.3 and 1:54/100m in IM distance races.
During the last month, I am swimming at sub 1:35/100m and around 1:40 for my slower efforts. Most significantly I am swimming faster each week. Whereas in the past no matter what I did, I didn’t seem to get faster, I feel that everything I am currently trying is making a difference. Something has just clicked.
I am way behind most of the swimmers here, however, as I am currently in this transition to a better swimmer (I hope), some of my experience may be relevant, although please feel free to tell me where I am wrong.
Final phase of stroke. Starting in September, I really started to focus on the final phase of my stroke. My perception is that it is not just the extra propulsion (which I think is minimal) however, I think that by lifting my arm too early I was creating a significant amount of extra drag, I really notice that I am slipping through the water much better now. As I lift my arm out of the water, when it is just clear of the water I pause for a fraction of a second and I know that my arm is stretched out behind me. As I get tired I can tell that my arm is not extended back, and I make a conscious effort to correct my form.
Kicking, in coached sessions we have been doing a lot of kicking drills, I used to feel that I was a one speed swimmer, and didn’t really understand when coach would say swim set at 70% or 80%, now I am using my kick a lot to vary speed. I am now beginning to adjust kicking effort and arm effort, typically kicking more at the end of a 400m set when my arms are getting tired, so that I can maintain pace
Rotation, this seems to be linked to the final phase of the pull. In the past I was rotating my hips as well as my shoulders, however, with a focus on my pull, I have noticed that I am not rotating my hips as much, which is also helping with my kick… however, I am not sure if it is the kicking practice that has helped keeping my hips more stable, or working on the pull or something different or everything together.
Keeping up with faster swimmers. In the past I was either the fastest swimmer in the slow group or the slowest swimming in the fast group. Suddenly I find myself towards the front of the fast group, I am keeping up as well as keeping my form.
In the past week, I found that my arm position under the water makes a surprising amount of difference, and a relatively small change in position gives quite a bit of extra propulsion, this is definitely an area that I will work on.
Another recent “discovery” is counting my Stroked per length. If I swim 18 strokes per length, I seem to be at 1:35-1:37/100, however, if I drop to 16 spl I am at 1:31-1:33/100, I think that in order to achieve a lower spl, I kick harder, but I maintain my strokes per minute. My next move (tonight) is to start to use my Finis trainer to ensure I maintain a consistent SPM.
I know it seems like I have a lot going on here, but it feels like a load of pieces are suddenly falling into place. Next year I hope to be able to swim an Ironman at 1:40 pace (1h03m) which would have seemed impossible for me a few months ago… but sometimes after a particularly good swim session, I begin to dream of sub 1:35 pace, which would give me a sub 1 hour swim.
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lucky you… the only major clicking I am getting is still my knackered elbows and knees…
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Not sure what the actual swimmers have to say, but I definitely over reach and glide 
I’m going to give the rest a go, too.
And swallow my ego and allow myself to be filmed at a club session 
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Same here looking at that. I reckon I’m pretty much doing catch-up.
Be interested to see your video analysis. I toyed with the idea of doing that.
Session for this morning was short drills anyhow, so I re-watched the GTN video and turned it into a short drills set.
Just a quick test to see where the weakness lies…
- Over Reaching: I know I do this, as the club coach told me. My stroke is sort of a glide and I need to increase turnover, however, I found all of these drills easy and could not feel anything to correct?
- Shortened Back End. My hand was coming out just below my buttock and the Superman drill was rock hard, mainly due to my weak kick, so…unsure I suffer from this
- Snaking. Well, I don’t do this, as my legs just hung there. And by hang, I mean, where the pool gets to 90cm deep, my toes were nearly dragging on the bottom - so my “floating” body position is abysmal, which my kick must hide? But, I am not quicker with a pull buoy, so erm…any ideas?
- Dropped Elbow: Paddles stayed on, no slippage, so happy with where this one is.
Going to keep doing the band, no buoy drill - as it made me think more about my lower body position.
Maybe do some more kick work.
Still need to work on increasing stroke rate, but I’m at a loss for that one.
I used to do that every session, just 100m with paddles/ankle band. Need to go back to it.
I’d never heard of it before, having only done 100m of it, I’m a huge fan!
It really shows how far your lower body sinks (or snakes - mine didn’t, thankfully!)
So, cheers to @chriswim for that top tip!
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