This. My fan in the turbo dungeon just hasn’t been up to the job of keeping me cool enough, so my quality TR interval sessions have been non-existent. That said, I’ve enjoyed being out on group rides and doing an odd hour on my road bike, but now that some time trials are back in the calendar my form has taken a noticeable dip.
Similar to @stenard - small 5W decrease to 267 after the Ramp test, mainly due to less zwifting due to the heat. Will take that.
Not sure on current weight, so let’s just assume I’ve dropped a kg to compensate 
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Whoops. Seem to have lost a shed load of ftp during August.
3.78w/kg.
First outdoor test, and never done a TT for comparison either. Expected it to be lower judging by power numbers outdoors, but I know I’m definitely fitter over longer stuff and have set 5s 60s and 5minute PBs in past 2 days.
Last test on wattbike was 20 minutes at 349W, today managed 335W, starting around 320-325W on first 12 minute flat before managing to increase when I hit a long hill for last 8 minutes. Biggest shame is still had a bit of energy left so under-paced it, wasnt at failure at 20 minutes.
Overall pretty happy as a guide as I think I’m fitter, and teaches few things even if not for setting zones. One is that I can learn how to hurt more outside.
For direct comparison/zone setting I’ll probably do an indoor test soon to prove my suspicion of a ~360W.
Anyone any thoughts on outdoor testing, in parricular regarding use of a one way uphill course to help hit higher power numbers? I couldn’t have held anywhere near 350W on flat for 20 minutes.
Keeps me hovering just over 4W/kg outdoors in real world setting though 
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Always going to be harder outdoors though as you have to concentrate on things like staying upright, not getting run over, corners etc whereas on the turbo you can go almost blind at the end of the test as you only have to flop off and go sick in the corner.
I can’t think of anywhere around this way where i’d actually get a decent 20min constant ride without having to worry about traffic in some way.
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Yep route was ideal! Moderate-busy dual carriageway but I was heading away from town at 7:30, one traffic light that is rarely red and one right turn at roundabout into the quiet hill at 12 minutes. Summited at 19.5 and had just enough road to be able to pedal down the other side for 30s, was only hundred metres or so from having to freewheel.
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I can hit higher power on hills than on flats. I just repeat my test on the turbo and have quite a bit of historical data, I know roughly how it translates into real-world performance. Plus it’s very repeatable and consistent. I usually improve up until May and then the warmer temperatures mean I tail off or can’t put out quite the same power. However you want to analyse it, you’ve good bike legs!
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Do at least 40-50minutes. Pacing otherwise has too much of an impact.
Normally I like a 20 minute indoor test and can do them even paced with maybe a mild gradual increase effort and couple Watts from 10 minutes onwards, but never enough left for a big final sprint. But you need to know what you’re aiming for to start at and then be able to judge perception, found that harder today on road not knowing outdoor target and thinking of other things, eg by time knew it another 2 minutes have passed and you’re still at same RPE.
I did a 60 minute indoor test in December and had great correlation to 95% of 20 minutes, enough for me to feel confident using 20 minutes for in-training comparisons.
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This is very interesting, prior to this year I could put out a higher power outdoors compared to indoors as I had a mental block about hurting as much on the turbo as I could outdoors. I used my local 10 course for consistency as there are no traffic lights and it’s a lumpy course so you gain time on the way back after climbing to the turn around. This year we have no TTs up here so purely having to use the turbo. My 2019 power was 3.88wkg and this year based on pure turbo work it is 4.3wkg. The biggest gains have come from Zwift crit and multi lap events as they are essentially extended over under sessions. I make sure the shorter event are 45mins and the longest 2 hours. I make sure I get at least 2 races in per week. Racing has enabled me to push the past the mental blockers I had previously and now relish the hurt when racing. I’m maxed out regarding weight loss so I have to focus on increasing the power. My winter target is to reach a FTP of 300w. Reading this thread has been inspirational for keeping me on track
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Out of interest what do you weigh in at? I’m 69kg and ftp of 3.8w/kg and working towards 4. Aspirational target is to hit 300w which I think is going to be hard work but achievable ( got to current position after 3 months of consistency, fro
Sweet fa and spinal injury in preceding years, from start of lockdown and feel I’ve still got more room to grow albeit at a slower rate).
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I’m 67kg and my current FTP is 286 (not tested for a few weeks). When racing IM I dropped to 65kg but lost the balance between power and weight so I’m happy to have a few more kg on board. I mentioned in an earlier thread that my 20 min FTP last year was 268w achieved out doors in a TT but that power is now my average power for an hour on the turbo.
Like you 300w seems doable but it will hurt and by the sounds of it you have plenty more to gain over winter.
I dropped all specific event training after June when the last of my races were cancelled so I Zwift race and work on building my FTP with over under sessions with an easy ride outside at the weekend. Patella tendinitis is also stopping me run so the extra time is spent on the turbo.
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Thanks for the reply. Really impressive gains you’ve made.
Find some of the Zwift races a really good way of pushing turbo sessions. Winter project for sure!
What percentages do you use for your over unders? And what sort of rep frequency and duration? Do you mix them up, or have a standard menu that you use each week?
I’m riding 3 times a week consistently at the mo. That’s currently one ‘session’, one easy and one long (70-100km) outside. This may increase a tad when the kids go back to school, as I’ll have most of my lunchtimes back. Though I do want to up my running to twice a week as well if I can.
I have a few from my coach that work for MTB and TT
#15 mins of hell- 10 min warm up then 3 sets of 1 min efforts at 125-170% of FTP with 1 min recovery in zone 1. A recovery period of 5 mins of zone 1 in between the sets then repeat and repeat again.
#Microbursts 10 X 5 min sets of 30 sec at 120-150%FTP with 4:30 Zone 1 recovery.
#Threshold holder- 15 mins warm up then 4x 11 mins at 98%of FTP with 3 mins in zone 1 between sets. 15 mins easy recovery
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Oh crikey, so proper dirty intervals then! 
Mine have been more threshold based then I guess, so far. Like 5mins at 90% and 5 mins and 102%, for a few repeats.
Guess that’s the area I’ve got to get in if I want to increase top end power. And it’s the one I’ve not touched at all yet. Part of that is with a dumb trainer I find it hard to find the right (high) power, especially with the delay on screen. Then when I juts settle in, the short interval is nearly over again. Though I guess 1min intervals would be doable. Just not the 30secs type vO2 max stuff.
Might try one of those next week.
I have mine on TP so Zwift picks them up and drops them in the custom work outs
I’m a dumb trainer as well, but did some over/unders the other day for the first time in a while. The session I did & have done in the past comes from this fella.
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My go-to so don’t need to think is 4x10 as 1 min 110% 1 min 90%, think used to take ~4min recovery Z1/bottom of Z2. Tough but not an all-out gut-wrencher, normally feeling like I could do a 5th set.
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Should I be pleased with this? A 1W increase 
More worryingly though on ZP, maybe I need to add a couple of kg’s on to avoid being bumped up or DQ’d
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