The Sanitisation of Ironman

You would have the bottles thing in a mass start with your swim :wink:

But seriously, they should start the AG waves like Kona, right? Where they modelled the times so people set off correctly…

@joex - Going to have to disagree with you on this one. I can’t see how people would swim over you and cheat through the bike and run in the rolling start scenario?

It’s exactly the same option as now - but having a sort of two races in one.

@hammerer appears to be using the “fun run” as a simile for the normal IM finishers.

Let’s be clear, FOP KQ athletes are not the norm. MOP/BOP IMJ types are.

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That said Matt, how did you find starting well back in Hamburg?

who’s talking clown shoes, rhino suits and cheating. We are talking that those who want to KQ get to go in front of the masses in a mass start and the rest carry on as now in their sanitised rolling start. And its a fun run now for 90% of athletes. Its not about a time, or beating people, its about beating cut offs and bragging on facebook

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As FP has said:

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I vaguely recall not having the best of swims. being kicked in the face was not an ideal start to my day (and shows that it can still happen even in a wave start with people going off 5 at a time)

When I wrote my post, I didnt notice that it was just 2 mins between starts, so the issues will be pretty much confined to the swim. Bike will be a little busier but normal order will have settled down after 20-30kms

People who will be most pissed off will be the fast women

I think that it is very unfair to say that anyone who is not a KQ propospect is an IMJ type (also pointing out that there are some true triathletes on IMJ as well). However, I agree with @hammerer that a GFA status could be a good compromise, like in VLM, GFA triathletes would need to qualify. They would have a mass start just after the Pro’s. Other people can then self seed and start in batches of 5 as per most other Ironmans. A normal starter would still be eligeable to KQ if they get a good enough time

@joex could then self seed, near the front of the batch start, unimpeded by micky mouse

You could still have a situation where a GFA athlete thinks that they have KQ’d as they were 3rd in their AG accross the line, only to find out later that someone who started later did a faster time, but it would be the exception rather than the norm as most KQ propects would be starting with GFA

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I’d have thought that if you’re going to all the trouble of providing a first past the post type race for the pointy end of each AG, you don’t want to have any chance some quick first timer then KQ’ing 20 mins later. I would see this as binary, either KQ is first past the post (so only ‘GFA’ people can qualify) or it’s done on chip time. Any middle ground seems like a waste of time?

@hammerer More generally what about people that are interested in say winning the AG but have no interest/finances to get to Kona? Can someone from the fun run pack still win an AG prize? That would seem unfair for them not to.

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Or maybe you make Ironman be Run > Bike > Swim. That would sort this problem out. Although means multi lap swims would be more of a nightmare. Different hat each lap?

There would be a lot of drownings I think.

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I think hammerers idea has a lot of merit, split the race between Pro/Racers and a 2nd wave of sportif competitors.

I just don’t see what’s in it for Ironman. It’s been said for a long time they don’t care about the Pros. They probably also don’t care about the KQ amateurs, they want mass participation for the minimum outlay, and that means catering to the completers. Why spend money and effort putting on a parallel race for the other 10%?

Sanitisation of Ironman it might be, but that’s what a Private Equity company want to drive their revenue.

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Pretty much what Outlaw Half does. Enter an Elite wave for those privileges, but be ineligible for AG prizes, or don’t and start in AG waves.

I chose not to enter the Elite wave, despite having a qualifying time, as I couldn’t really see the point in having it shown just how mediocre I really am :joy:

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Defo AG wave for me at Bowood Outlaw.

Have I missed something with people dying in the swim? Is it a big problem or statistically any bigger than any other mass participation event?

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This defeats the purpose for me as then the first across the line arent always the winners which is the issue with rolling starts. May as well stay as we are.

And saying fun run or IMJ types isnt meant to be derogatory , it means people not interested in Kona, not interested in racing others for a win or place but doing a TT, ie Sportive or VLM. I’d do that as I’m after being the best me not racing others. I like rolling start, just not to decide the race results.

I would say no as you are not racing someone. It’s a bit unfair if you win by 10 seconds having started 20mins later and missed the high winds or flown under the radar. You race, or you TT . You can be the best 40year old in the TT event, more winners

You’ve not been sub 4:30 in the past season have you, though, so it’s a moot point :roll_eyes::grimacing:

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The problem with that is that you’d need to do 2 x IM before being eligible for Kona (one to get a GFA and one to qualify)… can see Wanda being quite enthusiastic about that idea!

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Hey, break it to me gently, Mr softskills :sweat_smile:

More DNFs but I suspect less drownings.

Yes, you are significantly more likely to die in the first twenty minutes of an Ironman swim.

This risk is regardless of experience, how fast you are, or the water conditions.

There’s isn’t enough known about the problem to know if rolling swim starts are a significant risk mitigation.

It is known that elites are as affected as novices.

How many Elites have died in the swim? In fact how many deaths of anyone in last 5 years.