@hillwall Not gonna say it felt easy, but it wasn’t hard in the slightest.
As the wind was low today I was trying to go a little quicker (had the drum and bass on)
It’s a good feeling to see my “cruising” pace slowly coming down to 7:00 minute mile pace and below.
@Sparky Cheers dude
That is insane.
I start running again tomorrow …
Well done anyway
Interesting thread. Got some idea from memory with the recent 5k threads but even more interesting would be results compared to max effort to show difference.
For me:
Max 181 age 29.
RHR 33
Target = 144 (have Z2 range as 135-145 from estimated threshold HR)
Will probably attempt Sunday inside my long run. I reckon I’ll be around 4:40 pace, compared to 10k max pace of ~3:40.
My initial impression would be that someone like @funkster is limited by lack of top end, if their aerobic pace is very close to their max pace.
Compared to the other end someone like @Poet who is unable to hold anywhere near max heart for very long?
Not enough of a coach to articulate putting 2 and 2 together, but do expect this shows people’s relative strengths/weaknesses to target training to.
My RHR is 36 according to Garmin
My MHR is 187, set in December
(187-36)*0.75+36 = 149
11km on tradmill. KM 10 there HRM dropped out for a few seconds. Average was 127 bpm
This was a marathon pace run, HR goes up a bit on the climbs in the middle
Just tried it again and had a shocker, 49m22 av 143bpm
Old shoes and straight after lunch, but still 
Fail today, legs just not there after a brutal WTRL Zwift race last night.
Target was 138bpm
Couple of miles building and was around 8:30 mm pace for 122-123 bpm but canned the full session and went easy.
Will try again when a bit fresher.
here’s a sheet
enter your aerobic 10km time and HR, for beats per 10km
@Funkster is miles ahead… will anyone challenge him??
Sorry - now editable
@Chriswim It is all very interesting and the only positive thing to come from 2020 is seeing what happened if I tried to really stick to an 80:20 polarised approach.
As I’m targeting IM and marathons it does bring up the question of whether I need a top end and does that hinder race performance.
Do I need a “fast” 5km or 10 mile TT or is the efficiency a better goal/target?
My 5km PB is 17:58, which was in a Parkrun on a course with a couple of short inclines, but also in May/June and when I was 4 years younger.
I’m only 27 seconds off that on a gloomy NYD
Loving the beats per 10k column 
On the 80:20 specifically. Seiler doesn’t say not to do sweet spot just not to make that the staple of your training. But he says if your race is in that zone, like an Oly and HIM probably are, in the build to that, you would do race specific work to match your desired race day output in duration and effort. For IM I can’t see why doing some hard 5km run efforts, or improving that would hurt, so long as it doesn’t interfere with your specific prep.
Great thoughts there.
I’d say a decent AGer doesn’t at all.
But a pro does.
A Kona chasing AGer? Perhaps. But the delivery is really in the marathon. So long as you can kick out a sub 3:15 mara, you’re in the running.
So I had a go at this at lunchtime. I didn’t go in rested and it wasn’t exactly a flat route but 41:25 @137av
Set myself a ceiling of 140. That is below what 75% Karvonen would say (RHR: 45, MHR ~180ish) but even that is well above easy pace for me. I would put this firmly in junk mile territory, too fast for easy miles, too slow for a hard session. Hardest part of the run was speeding up on the downhill section to try and keep the HR up - I then found my HR jumped as I climbed back up and really struggled to bring it back down, even though I eased right off. Looking at the trace it may be an error, seems my HR jumped about 10 beats just before I started climbing, unrelated to my effort level.
That’s fast @buzz 
What’s your 10km PB?
I thought that…!
Sub 42 min 10 k at that hr… junk miles…!?
I thought that was very impressive.
Go on Alistair !
PB was a lifetime ago! Most recent benchmark was 36:xx but I’m not in that run shape at the moment. Today was close to the marathon pace I ran a year ago, and looking back that average hr was 148, 1st 10k was a bit lower so not far off.
My easy runs are probably <130, and I don’t see >170 on many runs these days, more limited by my legs than my heart.
46m55 @ 139bpm this evening
3rd rainy 10km in 3 days
So I did a 12km MAF run today.
10km time was 54.39. Average pace for the full 12 km was 5.28/km at 131bpm average.
This is a big improvement for me.
Observation I have is this. I haven’t seen steady gains doing this HR restricted training. I see nothing for a few months, then a big jump all of a sudden.
The last 8 months 10kms have been.
62 minutes, then 59 minutes, then 57 minutes and now 54.39. I plateau at each one for a couple of months, running a few times a week, then one day I just improve significantly.
My friend that did the Tanda/Schweining method discussed earlier (and in @hillwall post about trying to sub 3 off it). He would often report these aerobic leaps as he called them. When I tried the method, I’d just be complaining and getting bored, he’d tell me to keep with it and I’d get a leap.
Also, further to @NickBerry and @funkster conversation earlier on the beats per 10km. That was another metric that they used, and called it aerobic efficiency. Calculating the avg beats per km.
If I go back in to my big London build I did the same. It was really interesting to track. Though I’m not sure if much could be deferred from it?
He went 2.31 for a marathon using that slow only, but multiple, multiple 100 mile plus weeks. Sub 16 5km in there, sub 34 10km. No speedwork. He used to race about 3 or 4 maras a year. But never quite cracked the sub 2.30 he was chasing.
Ended up getting really injured in the end with a never ending niggle that stole the last 2 years from him. Related? Who knows. But he was doing crazy, crazy mileage with very little rest for a good 2/3 years.
@Midlife_Trisis Have to report similar “leaps”
I’ll be ticking over at a :10 barrier for ages and then suddenly will go through it like it’s nothing
First lockdown using a 140bpm ceiling I managed one sub 7:00 mile pace.
Just been out this morning. No real effort
6:58 / 125HR
