Your input is really valuable, and sometimes it is good to be challenged on our own perceptions.
I’d largely concur. That’s riding at 63% FTP for an hour. As a filler, I can kind of see the point. And my coach does set them every now and again during a recovery week or taper. But that’s largely warm up power. You could easily bump that to just 70% FTP, and you’re getting an extra 25% TSS on the session (49 instead of 40), which is still a pretty easy hour.
If anyone had asked me 12 months ago whether I could have trained any harder than I was, I would have said no way… yet this year I am training 4.5 hours per week more. The difference is that last year I was training without making too many sacrifices, this year I am sacrificing almost all social aspects of my life.
I read the blogs, and realise that I am probably at the “lower” end of training load for people who qualify for Kona. I think that I am doing enough to make it worth it, but starting this thread, and looking into it, I realise that I probably need to do even more if I can. Think I will be more out of breath on those Early Thursday Zwift rides
Going back to part of the original thread and what it takes - I’ll bite, and throw in some willy-waving, and purely anecdote.
I came 4th in AG last year, so close to KQ (3 spots), think I was about 5 minutes behind. Major thing to be aware is non-competitive AG (25-29), at what I suspect must have been non-competitive race for me to place,perhaps due to negativity around IMUK last year, maybe lucky year, maybe it was standard competition and just my perception. Hard to know as such a different bike course, but I was 19th overall but an hour behind overall AG winner, 30 minutes behind 4th place.
I averaged 11.9 hours a week for the 24 weeks preceding (not including race week). I only have access to phone app TP so not much data to hand, but CTL was around 45 in Jan, 65 at start of March, 80 early April, 90 early May where it ranged 90-105 for the next 6-8 weeks to IMUK.
This season, CTL was 39 in middle of September at end of time off, and has been a gradual progression every few weeks up to current peak of 72 off ~11 hours a week. I think being in my second season I’m a lot fitter/faster that where I was this time last year.
Caveat is I have a large endurance base from swimming where I trained ~20-25 hours a week at peak. Although I was a 200-400m swimmer, shit at 1500m, quit in 2012, and only exercised around 6 hours a week from 2013-2018 so didn’t start IM on back of huge recent work. Nor do I think I’m some super genetic freak. Above average swimmer, but I trained harder/more dilligent than a lot of people who beat me. Good natural runner, but cycling has taken a lot of work to be vaguely in same race as others.
There are plenty of stories out there of people KQ on low volume. Remember being pointed from the similar thread on TT1 to a Scandanavian AG winner others may remember, and there are plenty of sub 10 on 10 blogs out there. So it can be done without the huge volumes. Indeed that Couzens pyramid I’d say starts high for everyone - 40 TSS is definitely higher than average non-competitive person I know, everyone I know in real life thinks I’m a training freak doing high volume. I clearly don’t know many/any athletes properly, hence I waste my time with you guys.
Not that I think that’s optimal either. I aspire to train more/increase TSS if I want to compete/KQ in a few years time, just giving my experienc so far.
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I guess when I was in my 20’s i would also have agreed with your peers. I’ve been really impressed with your IM last year, no doubt you will KQ at some point. CTL is called fitness, but it is just a measure of training load, fitness is built up over several years. I believe that fitness built up when young is relatively easy to get back, even after a long period of inactivity, however someone starting with little background in their 40’s is going to struggle whatever their CTL
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Nice schedule Matthew - personally I have quit the cycle commutes for 2-3 years. I find these an awful amount of faff for the marginal benefit, and hard to work to zones or structure. Think they are great for folk new to IM, esp the bike, who need easy volume, but at the KQ end of the scale probably of marginal benefit.
I’ve replaced the 2/3 days of commutes with structured longish turbos - 2 of these are in the morning - yes up at 5:15am (bed night before at 9:30 otherwise they donlt happen…) but that gives 1.5-2 hours of solid structured work and time to hop off, wolf down brekkie and drive to work. Driving, rather than cycling home then gets me in the door earlier with less faff to follow. The other is usually in the eve, soon as I get in from work on a ‘lie in’ day.
Overall I have found that massively beneficial training wise for slightly less life impact as doing the commutes with the same time actually in the saddle for both.
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It’s good to read the thoughts of others and following this thread.
My 2c is that training ‘only’ 6 hours per week is actually quite a lot compared to the average person (not the average triathlete). I train ‘only’ about 6 hours per week (current CTL is 35 lolz compared to you lots) - albeit I’m not going longer than HIM. I can run a reasonable 13.1 and complete a sprint/oly tri in the top 25%.
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Not that I’m saying I’m near the KQ end, but I agree. I ditched cycle commuting the year I committed to trying to go sub10. As you say, that time on the bike is of very marginal benefit when commuting through London, and yet it takes up time (and energy) that could be better invested in structured sessions.
I can see Matt probably has a very different outcome, given he says he gets 27k of decent non-city riding each way. So I can see more of a benefit there.
6hrs is huge amount compared to average person, even average person who exercises. If I did 6x1hour gym or 6 hours running a week I’d think that to be very high level. I’d go as far as saying 6 consistent hours per week is probably in line with average person who enters triathlons (not IM). They may not define themselves as triathletes, just people who exercise and enter the odd event. Interesting, but That said I think this is an important thread to stay on topic so summary is KQ would benefit from upwards of 15hours
I guess it all depends on what type of commute you have. For me door to door the bike takes the same as train, car is not a viable option. However I do take your point about the effectiveness of training on Turbo
When weather is poor, I do the same as you and do a structured session on the Turbo. I do usually end up doing at least one decent session per week on the turbo trainer. In Jan I rode around 750km outdoors and 600km on the Turbo. Not looked at Feb yet, but due to nice weather probably greater percentage outside
Tomorrow i am working from home, and plan to do 100km on the turbo.
Agree, If its an additional 1 hour ‘session’ like it seems for matt then it seems useful, need to do everything to fit training into life routine and be efficient. I was looking forward to cycle commuting last winter when did a 4 month job 15km away. Did it once, sat in traffic most the way, never did again. Did try run it one way once a week though which was ideal.
My normal job is 2.5km from house, I include that as a run commute and see that as important add on to training to get extra 5-10km a week.
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This is one thing I do find funny. Distance on the turbo is fairly meaningless. I’ve never used zwift, so no idea of 100km on zwift “feels” the same as 100km on the road, but in terms of a structured workout to power, depending on what gear I’m in on my erg I can change the distance covered from 15kph to 45+!
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THIS!!!
It should not feature on leaderboards or in your annual stats.
You did not move anywhere!!!
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Meh we all know that TSS is the true measure. KM on a turbo is willy waving, consider the difference between Alpe Du Zwift and a peloton barreling round a flat course.
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Erm…I’m 185cm, 60kg with and FTP of 180W.
Every Zwift I do is at least 983TSS 
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Matthew_Spooner I have been really impressed by your trajectory and drive over the last couple of seasons. I think you’ll KQ, and am looking forward to tuning in to see how you progress.
From a personal perspective, I’d love to set KQ as a stretch goal, but still can’t quite wrap my head around the level of commitment required.
One of the things I’ll be watching is that you don’t go completely nuts and start invoking the spirit of the deer, rinsing the fat off cottage cheese, and embarking on long sociological diatribes. That would be bad.
Good luck
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Please call me out if I start getting close.
Despite my wife’s best efforts to get me to go Vegan, still clinging onto dairy and eggs (in reduced volume), and occasionally my body tells me I need some meat… however, sociological diatribes are a risk
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I tend to manage 6 hours a week, (more when I actually attend the office, which is rarer now) and I’m not training for anything at all…
Don’t get the ditching the commute saving time thing for the Londoners, who has commutes where going by bike is slower than anything else? I can run the 14km faster than public transport or driving, let alone using a bike.
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Bike is faster for me (30mins) but the run is a bit slower (40mins - I can cut through Hyde Park making the journey 2k shorter) versus my tube commute time of average 25mins tube +10mins walking combined. I’m lucky that half my journey is on the Victoria line.
It’s only partially about saving time for me (there is some faff involved in getting everything ready to ride in), but it’s also about the training benefit of that energy expenditure. I don’t think I derive much at all once I’m fit (it’s good at aiding an accelerated return to bike fitness though) and I think it can slightly compromise the quality of my key workouts. Plus there’s the risk factor, altho I personally believe that to be minimal.
I think time saved vs using public transport is probably greater in cities outside London, where there’s no Underground option. Bristol is horrendous for driving; there is no genuine ‘ring road’ (either the inner or outer) and there are so many traffic lights and one-way roads.