Long Rides

[joex]

Okay so maybe devils advocate here, but if we’re okay that you can get the same aerobic conditioning from essentially splitting the long ride in two, let’s look at @buzz point on body position.

I’m not really sure how you can measure this, but holding that position for 2-3h has to stimulate adaptation to some degree, is doing that twice going to be significantly less than holding it for 4-5h? In fact isn’t there some injury risk unless you’re already capable of it?

If there is a gap, can strength work cover it?

@wheezy has a good point about recovery too, like the long run, the long rides can burn you out.

I see one kind of obvious downside, if you’re training six days a week and split your long ride, you’re likely training seven days a week . But maybe there’s ways to change things up with two medium rides.

[Jorgan]

I’m advocating long rides for the reasons Hammerer & Buzz state. If people want ‘hacks’ then go and have a discussion on IMJ, for what that’s worth.

I’m not sure how to interpret some of the comments here referencing me, but I can tell you that I do 4 weeks of 15-16h before an Ironman, which includes a century ride at 05.45 on a Sunday followed by a short brick up to 10km. Everything else fits in & around work; a lot of my hours come from commuting. I always take Saturday or Sunday off.

Going back to hacks, it’s simple. Whether you want to go 9h or make the 17h cut-off… VICTORY LOVES PREPARATION.

[Adam]

In my build up to Wales I’ve got a loose plan of regular long rides of 2-3 hours. Once a month I’m planning on having 4 hour plus ride which I could extend to 6 hours family/life permitting. A 60km loop that’ll have two hills of note in it and goes past my house for bottle drop off/pick up. I don’t think everything has to be on your tt bike either but I’d say your one key session each week should be. So for me these longer rides will be as I think @Hammerer point of building muscular endurance is bang on and you should probably being doing this on the aero bars.

[Jorgan]

@Poet

Why @Jorgan ?

Ideally, if you hate your family, or have none, or have tonnes of holiday you want to use up selfishly;

Why what? I assume the bit above is unrelated to me.

[Adam]

Yes I think @Poet was just asking why you were referenced.

[Poet]

Yeah. Totally unrelated.

I wondered why the OP was referencing @Jorgan

As for the Friday/Saturday vs Sat/Sun; ideally, you’d do you long run the day after your long ride.
But that’s not feasible for most of us trying to maintain some semblance of family life.

[Jorgan]

No, the two 2.5h rides do not give you the conditioning you need. Additionally in your case, what’s your likely bike split and overall goal? I’m guessing a bike in the 5h bracket is not anticipated? If you just want to finish and don’t mind feeling like shit after 80 miles on the bike then fine!

[stenard]

@Poet

Ideally, if you hate your family, or have none, or have tonnes of holiday you want to use up selfishly;

@Poet

As for the Friday/Saturday vs Sat/Sun; ideally, you’d do you long run the day after your long ride.
But that’s not feasible for most of us trying to maintain some semblance of family life.

I get we’re all different, and I get you set your priorities based on what you want, but your comments above are rather loaded. And I have to admit get a bit annoying. Just because you set your priorities that way does not make other people who don’t selfish, or hate their family.

I have a friend with kids who has a football season ticket. That necessitates quite a bit of time, and a number of weekends away. Him and his wife have a plan and they still have a lot of time spent together.

I have another friend who takes his golf seriously. He’ll play both mornings of the weekend during the summer. His wife has no problem with that.

I have other mates with kids who have jobs that mean they are all over the world consistently throughout the year. And miss a lot of weekend time. But it pays the mortgage and puts food on the table.

Getting up early and getting a long ride in can have you back mid morning on a Saturday. I’ve fit long runs in starting at 8pm on a Sunday. That impacts absolutely zero on the meaningful time I get to spend at home with my partner and its all arranged in advance.

Just because you set your priorities differently, can you please stop taking the moral high ground with others who happily have different arrangements?!

[Hammerer]

@joex

isn’t there some injury risk unless you’re already capable of it?

That is why you build up to it by increasing your training gradually. You wouldn’t go out and run 3hrs if you only currently did a park run a week

[joex]

@Poet

I wondered why the OP was referencing @Jorgan

Because Jorgan said he didn’t want to train for long course because “ mainly the long solo rides on the TT bike”

I’m not criticising him.

It got me to thinking whether he really needed to do them, simple as that.

[Poet]

@stenard

can you please stop taking the moral high ground with others who happily have different arrangements?!

No moral high ground taken.

Getting up early = cuddles and breakfasts missed
Going out late = going to bed separately, missing out cuddles, going to bed late.

I’m stating my opinion, which was intended as tongue in cheek.

Sorry if I’ve touched a nerve.

[Jorgan]

@Poet

Going out late = going to bed separately, missing out cuddles, going to bed late

After 16 years this isn’t an issue (assuming you mean your wife) . That said, I don’t need to train in the evening, due to my work/life balance, and I do rather like that.

[stenard]

@Poet

I’m stating my opinion

I guess that was my point. By not using “I” but “you”, you were effectively accusing anyone who did long ride Saturday/long run Sunday as being selfish, or hating their family. You were stating what you’ve now said are how you personally balance things, and assign priorities, as the only way of doing it. Otherwise someone is the stated things (selfish, etc).

@Poet

was intended as tongue in cheek

If I missed that bit, then fair enough. But it didn’t come across that way.

[GRamsay]

Joel Friel says long rides START at 2 hours. When I was IM training I had a lot of long rides on my plan. Building up from 2 hours months out peaking at 6. That was based on me in Lanza where is was probably looking at a 6-7 bike split.

As hammer says it’s a combination of things youre building. Muscular endurance , aerobic endurance, mental hardness, plus for me getting my back and biffins bridge used to it.

[stenard]

@GRamsay

plus for me getting my back and biffins bridge used to it.

This cannot be understated. It’s amazing how early season, an hour on the turbo can feel properly painful. And a few months later, on the same saddle, a 5+hr ride can pass by pretty comfortably.

Even more important if just using tri shorts/suit, which arent going to have the same comfort as a nice pair of bibs

[joex]

Okay, so I’ve no idea how many long rides people think they need to perform their best.

I know newbies are recommended to do a couple, but I don’t think there are any newbies on this thread.

My current plan (TR) starts long 3.5h+ In mid July every fortnight for eight weeks (4) then every week for 8 weeks (8(, so 12 in total.

What does everyone else do?

[jeffb]

I used to be able to get away with 3.5-4 hours once a week, but would often have done a decent winter\spring of rides around 3 hours, and maybe something on the turbo midweek. And then as I got closer to an IM, I’d build to longer rides depending on the course and expected bike split, e.g. ~6 hours when doing Bolton.

The fatigue really starts to build if I start going over 4 hours too soon, particularly if they are hilly and I’m trying to do intervals or long runs.

But in recent years I think I’ve used the previous 7-8 years of banked endurance to get away with less.

I don’t use my TT bike enough though, but depending on which bike I’m on I’ll either try and get on the drops so I’m still low, and my Ti bike usually has tri-bars so I can get a bit lower.

I have also found in the past that long rides on the road bike do help, but yes, there’s a curve to getting TT ready.

Last year I didn’t do too many long rides, for about 10 weeks I was averaging just over 100 MPW with an odd tough session or 10TT etc., and a little bit of running.

I then put in a couple of decent 100M TT’s (~240W), yes, conditions and surface were good on the day I got a PB, it wasn’t traffic assisted though.

But equally, a few weeks later for just another 15 miles at Hamburg, on a windy day, I did an alright bike split but had a nightmare on the run. Maybe I hadn’t done enough miles, but I’d had digestion problems on the bike as well. Maybe I’d dug too big a hole with the 100’s and other races in the buildup. There’s a lot to go wrong on an IM, even if you’ve done about 10.

Jeff

[joex]

Found a similar thread in ST. A former KQer concerned his coach wasn’t giving him any long rides or runs. Looks like he did three long rides before IM Louisville.

I stalked him down, he’s a Brit and came 5th overall.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Value_of_long_rides_and_runs_for_IM_P7024712/?search_string=ukinny#p7024712

[jeffb]

That course isn’t straightforward either, the middle loops are rolling all the way, nothing big or steep, just never-ending.

Equally though, some people are just naturally talented and fit, with longer rides he could possibly have made it as a pro.

[Hammerer]

Or maybe he became too fatigued over 4 hrs to the detriment of consistency.
It could also be added that 4hrs is probably over 80miles for a KQr but may only be 50 for a BOPer