He’s incredible. 30kg heavier than Kipchoge, and only about 10% slower over a half marathon or 10km. Both said to have VO2max in the 90s.
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whilst that is in part a contributory factor, it is the level of efficiency or the level of that vo2 that is sustainable…
erm… I may well be a smidge over 75kg 
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I’m not sure what my marathon pace is yet but I’m running my long runs at high end of Z2, then having an easy run in low/mid Z2 and doing a 10k fast run
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Yes new to running - started all this about 18 months ago but had a chunk of time off for injury.
Was just looking to steer my training in the right direction, so lots of long easy miles to build the base?
Yes don’t think I’m getting down close to that - still dropping and closing in on that elusive double digits (albeit slowly)
There is little doubt that you need the long runs, to build up to around 30km but you need to understand these are hard workouts regardless of thinking the pace is easy - the toll is high.
Again in generalisms, I tend to think 1h45 is around optimal for heavier runners in terms of cost/benefit whereas others think purely in terms of distance. I’d rather see two of those in my training week than one 3hr soul and body destroyer, but a one or two 30-32km will give you a good sense of where you’re at.
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Thanks Joe,
I’m building upto 32k lon rung.
training is 3 days a week.
Tues 10/12k easy
Thurs 10k all out effort
Sunday - HM this weekend and then adding 3/4k to get to 30k and then doing 4 weeks at 30k and then taper down for 3 weeks for the race
The other issue here is the “overenthusiasm” of running your 1st marathon where you think all your training numbers are going in the right direction and then on marathon day you go off like a bat out of hell 'cos it feels easy and you end up walking and stumbling through the last 10k.
Many of us around here will have done that - me for sure.
If I make one suggestion - set a target time and add 30minutes - that way you will be less disappointed!!
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Living up to that fun police title!!!
No you’re right - to be honest with the sub 4 hour goal being taken away with the injurie last year, I’m not really focusing on a finish time anymore.
My Long runs are all going at 6.30/6.40 pace so I assume I will do this pace in the marathon?
Once question I did have - my runs are taking place in 26-30 degree heat 11-1pm in Dubai. Should I be expecting to find London easier being much cooler? Should I factor this into my pace and up it or stay at 6.30ish?
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I’d have few concerns of what pace you do your long run at, other than making it even slower than you think, even if that means walking regularly eg 9:1 run:walk style strategy.
For context my long run pace is about 1min/km slower than my race pace, and my learning from the last few years was I could make it slower again.
Use your shorter runs and bike/swim to go for fitness gains. Long run is more about time on feet and conditioning all the soft tissues to get used to it, and some low aerobic conditioning if you want to think that way. It’s a big injury risk trying to run it properly every week, especially as a newbie, with weight, and recent injury history
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With the pace my avg HR is 130/135 for the long runs at 6.30ish pace - I do feel like I could pick the pace up a bit but wanting to keep it feeling easy - should I drop it down to 120/125 HR?
My fast workout on a Thursday is at 5.30/5.40 for 10k
My easy Tues is around 7/7.10 and actually feels a little hard/stagnant to go at that pace at a 115ish HR
I also have a very limited idea of what I’m doing so all guidance is much appreciated 
I wouldn’t personally be doing an ‘all out’ 10km effort each week. If you’re already injured you’re not giving yourself the best chance of line up injury free.
Would definitely be doing a 9-1 walk run as @Chriswim suggested for your weekly long run though.
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Type these into the calculator I posted at the start, that will give you race place targets and separately, training pace targets.
Unless you’ve raced a half more recently than your PB or that PB is unreliable for some reason, I’d be very cautious about targeting faster than 4h32 as your race pace.
That would be around 6:25/km and I’m with Chris and Adam on pacing training, so something like 7:25/km for your long runs which might be more achievable as a run walk. I can’t run slower than 6:50/km and call it running, my hips go weird so I’d much prefer running at an easy comfortable pace and add in walk breaks.
Ignore me if you prefer advice from someone who can actually run marathons, I’m shit at it. But believe me, you’ll feel a lot better if you come in at 4h30 thinking you could have been faster, than walking the last 18km for a 5hr.
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I’d have to agree with @joex here. My PBs were quicker than yours (some by a good margin) when I did my 1st marathon - I targetted sub-4 which according to all the calculators should have been doable. I came in at 4:10 and dead disappointed. For me, the wheels came off at 20 miles - I’d never run further than that in training which should have been OK but my pacing was all off - slow start, too quick between 5 and 20 miles, and then death. Plus it was over 20C on race day - all my training had been at temps closer to 10C and below - and that can make a difference.
I did eventually get a sub-4 (by 8 seconds!) but I wasn’t designed to run marathons as an ex-prop.
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Yes, and realistically a good 7 - 12 minutes slower than this.
The 5km, 10km and HM dont ‘line-up’ at all, but we know nothing about the circumstances of these times, fast training runs, individual TT, race etc.
VDOT of the HM is 31.4 which is a 4:38:59 marathon
Assuming a HM race effort or solid TT effort
HM x 2 +7 to 12 min equation gives
4hr39m to 4hr44m
Less kms in the legs or less years consistently running i.e a newer runner it normally ends up being the plus 12 ish.
Cameron, Reigel 4hr45:28 et al. give similar results.
Just for fun the 10km indicates VDOT of 35.8 but would mean a HM of 2:02:00.
5km not even going there its so far removed from a Marathon especially for a newer runner.
Disclaimer not recommendations, just a bit of fun based on the very limited information.
It is wise to not base goals nice round numbers that sound appealing, 3hr30, 4hr, 4hr30 but on ones realistic ability and background.
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At his pace, i might consider timed runs, as that could be close to 4hrs, id be wary , especially with his injury history, of doing the “traditional 22miles”
As you said
Maybe 2.5hrs for me, but huge caveat of not knowing his background
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Yeah, that’s why I’ve used hours in the post except that.
…I find it hard to say never run 30km until race day. And if done as a run/walk the damage/risk is limited.
There are some long run variations aren’t there, like run the first third very easy, middle third easy and last third at marathon or some such than could also reduce overall time on feet.
What you wouldn’t want is a 2.5-3.5hr run every week, maybe once a month or fortnight?
Meh - this problem is why I decided never to sign up for a marathon until I’m at most a 1h45 for a half!
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Many ways to skin a cat, i would certainly be telling a UK based athlete aiming for 4.30+ to get some long walks on the trails building up just to spend 4hrs on their feet (for ironman especially)
Run walk is a no brainer, and needs training. 9/1 is traditional 5/1 would also work in this case. London, first 5k is downhill so wouldnt go from start as Id usually recommend, I would get through that busy spell then settle in as you turn left to get on the DC going from Woolwich to Greenwich.
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Thank you everyone - tons and tons of useful advice as always!!!
Lots to take onboard.
My timings are all over the place as I’m still new to running. my 5k PB was sept, my 10k was last week and my half was a while ago as well.
@joex I am actually running a half this weekend so will have a more accurate idea of what my time is - deffo wouldn’t ignore the advice! The more the merrier as everyone is more experienced than me 
@fatbuddha I’m an ex No.8 so i feel your pain with the not being the right shape I’m hoping the weather won’t be an issue as I’m training in 28 degrees and it’s only going to get warmer leading upto April
@bbt67 Yeah unfortunately everything is all over the place for me, was why I asked the question on what to focus on as it seemed like my 5k pace should translate into much faster 10k and HM but it doesn’t - I think 6"5 and 104KG is one of the biggest draw backs, I pretty big and strong so can get some speed on the shorter distances but this then falls off the longer I go. I’m off down the VDOT rabbit hole now!!!
One question on the long run pacing and slowing down - I’m upto 17k now and my HR stays in Z2 and i’m having conversations with my friend (albeit not flowing) and the pace is feeling easy and good, last few K’s each time is a bit of a push. But 6.20-6.40 pace seems like a nice easy pace.
I just went for an easy run this evening and did 7.25 pace and felt really heavy, labouring my steps and heavy plodding which felt really unnatural and uncomfortable.
I know I shouldn’t be running my long runs fast, but if I’m nicely in Z2 and feeling good, do I need to slow down to an uncomfortable pace? Not disagreeing, genuinely trying to get the correct understanding
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