what for?
what for?
what for?
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Running or racing? It’s important you are honest with yourself - is this a PB attempt, then set yourself up for success. Or are you logging miles in a plan? That usually calls for an easier pace.
What ejc is poking at is knowing why you are doing what you do - each session should have an intended outcome, a benefit. Without knowing this it’s problematic.
When I was at you stage of experience, around ten years ago, it was hard to know what to do or why, and dozens of different directions people would point at. I would say pick a direction for a season and stick with it. Within reason.
Try to find enjoyment and friendships - I didn’t do this at all.
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1h45 off the bike obviously 
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Plans changed so not doing the half this weekend so did 21k last night instead at a hard effort, not sure I could have gone much harder and kept pace. Avg was 5.58 pace so 10 mins off my previous PB so trending in the right direction.
@explorerJC - my reasoning’s behind the 3 sessions are:
- Tuesday easy miles - just to get easy miles in the legs with limited damage
- Thursday hard 10k to get a speed work session in and also build some mental strength/muscular endurance of pushing at a hard effort
- 4 weeks at 30k - it’s my understanding I should try and not run more than 3-3.30 hours on my long run building up so want to get a number of those runs in to build endurance and get comfortable with the distance
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Good progress 
Plug that into the McMillan calculator for your training paces.
you could swap this for an easy bike if the intention is some active recovery whilst keeping the systems ticking over…i am not adverse easy runs, but running in Zone 1 without developed biomx is quite hard…if you swapped this for a bike, it might free your legs up for a more specific session…
not against running hard either, but you might well benefit from mixing this up with tempo, pace injection, fartlek, negative split, intervals etc…if this session is max effort, you are effectively racing every week…
elite runners run up to 20 miles (long run) every week, but they generally have many years and miles under their belts and the long run is usually no more than 1/3rd of their weekly mileage. Whilst being able to sustain a long run in Zone 2 will help develop endurance, it comes at a cost and it is therefore a balance between risk and return. The physiological benefits will be minimal* but the accumulated fatigue may well outweigh those benefits. This is why usually it is better to build up to the longest run with an occasional recovery week…so you could do something like 16, 18, 12, 20…
*compared to say 16 or 18
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@G8zzaj I have been doing what eJC mentions. I have in every Marathon build. An example of my long run progression over the last handful of weeks (I’m running Manchester Marathon on the same day as London.)
Progression
21.1km,
24km,
27km,
22km regression (regenerative week), was going to be 21km but mis-calulated the route a bit. 
26km,
33km.
Don’t take any notice of the actual Kms, just the principal.
I’d split the 10km up into repetitions, at least a majority of weeks…
Examples,
WU > 6x 7x 1km > CD
WU > 3x 3km > CD
WU > 4x 2km > CD
Repetitions meaning longer recoveries than what many call intervals. Why, because you want to maintain the best possible form you can to reduce the injury risk of the overload this kind of work brings. Just one line of thought. Of course you can do them on short recoveries as well
You can play with the paces a bit… take the 3x 3km assuming you know your realistic marathon pace.
First 3km @ Marathon Pace
Second 3km @ Marathon Pace -3 sec per km
Third 3km @ Marathon Pace - 6 sec per km
It gives you some time at and slightly quicker than Marathon Pace. You can also do them at tempo or each as a negative split, the possibilities are endless, just think why and what are you achieving.
I’m a big fan of the negative split sessions mentioned, I call then progressive runs, I think they are my favourite type of session.
Final thought, once up to the maximum length of long run, with down weeks as required, I add progressively longer sections towards the end of long runs at marathon pace so they become more specific to the event leading into the taper.
PS I noted, you have no time running around Marathon pace in you plan.
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
@explorerJC I’ve got two rides in - 50k on a weds Vo2 Max session and a long 100-120k on Sat Z2 as I’m still 50:50 on roth so keeping my fitness up.
Ok intervals etc… seem the way to go, to be honest I ran hard 10k as I just wanted to see where I was post injury and with the weight loss so will switch to intervals now
@bbt67 Yes my progression has been similar to be fair. I went from 10 to 14 to 17 an then to 21 last night.
Then my plan is
24
27
18
30
30
30
20
12
Race
Now I’m sure this probably isn’t right so very welcoming to any advice
RE: marathon pace efforts, I don’t really know what my marathon pace is - I know I want to aim for 6.20/6.30 but with 21k as my longest ever run it’s all going to be playing it by ear until I get the longer stuff done.
6.30/6.40 on the long runs are high Z2 but feel like a nice pace that I can comfortably hold at the current distances so I’m assuming this will just continue into the longer distance as my body adapts
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Don’t worry about the specifics too much, getting out for a run is 90% of getting it right. You don’t need 99% right, yet.
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that’s still 3 tough long runs back to back…
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Yeah three weeks of 30km. That’s a slog!
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lovely how they can make stuff up…
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Especially when it’s three weeks in a row of 3:15-3:30hr long run, AND in someone who I don’t think has much consistent history of >5hours per week (let alone 8-10hrs).
@G8zzaj my advice would be somewhere around 30 23 30. Yes you need a long run, but EJC said it well above that it’s a increasing injury risk for less reward as you go longer.
No matter what you do now you’re slightly undercooked after the injury and it being first year of endurance sport.
Trying to do 3x30 increases that injury risk even higher of not making the start line at all. So I’d drop the 6 and potentially add it to another run depending on how things were going.
My bias would be I’m very injury prone in running and dont tolerate big increases (or anything resembling to speed work). Others will get away fine with what you’re suggesting
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That wasn’t meant as a blunt negative, don’t bother trying sense.
It was more meant as trying to support to get to where you can be, rather than chasing what you ‘should’ do, eg reading online you should do at least 3x30km runs, if that’s too big a jump from where you are now.
It’s often a warning sign when long run is >50% of total week distance, and potentially (?) even more than what your consistent total weeks distance was not that long ago?
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The whole post came across as thoughtful and honest, I didnt read it as blunt etc.
^ same, like it.
The long run/long-long run alternating weeks approach works well, for masters/older athletes, newer runners without years in the legs, and those that don’t complete a large weekly volume, a generalisation for sure. Simpler to say just about everyone.
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@joex - I did do the mcmillan when you suggested - what I meant by not knowing my marathon pace is that having never run further than a half I don’t know how I can hold a pace over a long distance and yes I’m starting to see/feel that just getting out and getting the K’s in is 90% of it.
@explorerJC @Adam @Chriswim Ok have changed up the plan and dropped the middle of the 30k down to 23 - lets see how it goes, this is just a rough outline and will change dependant on how my body feels. I think I’m going to drop the hard efforts/speed work as well - body felt a pretty banged up after Thursdays for longer than I wanted and felt a bit overtrained all weekend from an irritability, tiredness perspective.
@Chriswim didn’t come across as blunt and appreciate the detail in your answers, fully agree I’m undercooked - had decided when I started in Jan that I would just do a full Zone 2 plan leading upto London and just enjoy it - but a few good training weeks and feeling good had me looking at a time and pace again - need to refocus on nice steady, easy runs to keep my body fit and build that base.
So with the long run being too much of a % of total volume - should I look at trying to get 12/15k in on my tues/thurs runs then and build my long run slower?
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and that is one of the flaws with those plans…
i am not surprised because you are effectively ‘racing’ which is why I/we recommend mixing it up…
hardly a Zone 2 if you are racing 10k
building your long run over a greater period of time would have been better, but you limited the duration of your build up. Yes to building up midweek volume but this to must be done over time and still needs mixing up so it is not just another long run…
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yes indeed! Jan was full of Zone 2 runs, then I felt good and decided to start trying to get quicker!!!
How is it going? Six weeks tomorrow?
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