It’s that careful balance though isn’t it. They’re within their rights to do that, but it won’t be perceived very well which will impact future revenue. So they’ll only pull that if they’re really in dire straits financially I’d say.
You think?
People will still pay the money to get the M•Dot.
Most people competing are now one and done’s.
It’ll quickly be forgotten.
People forget very, very quickly…
…Examples being Mark Wahlberg (multiple racial assaults), Chris Brown (physically assaulting Rihanna) and Ant McPartlin (twice the drink drive limit, three car collision)
Yeah, fair point.
I’d not heard about Wahlberg before. But the Ant thing always riled me. Just because he was a ‘nation’s favourite’ apparently that was OK. Anyway!
It’ll still have an impact, and maybe one particular cohort will have a grumble and give up on the IM ‘dream’ and move onto the next big thing. But IM Corp will work hard to get the next lot, that don’t know anything about the refund issue back on the conveyor belt.
I still think it’ll have an impact, but you make a good point. Maybe more of a blip.
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Nope!
Anyone else with a drink driving conviction would find it hard to get another decent job.
He was back on TV the following year.
Shocking.
Anyways…I don’t think they’ll keep folks’ entry fees, but they could. Depends what Advance want to do…these huge investment companies have odd business strategies than I can’t get to grips with!
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I had been thinking what will Ironman do if/when this years events are cancelled.
Surely it’s suicide to completely alienate your current entrants and keep their money with no future deferral. I’m not saying it won’t happen but that does seem short sighted.
It’s hard to die when the customer base is hell bent on resurrecting you without consequence each time.
I’m not an MDot hater, I quite the bells and whistles races they provide and I equally like low key/no crowd races but bloody hell MDot gets away with some shit that they shouldn’t.
My ‘perception’ is that UTMB are headed the same way but I’d be interested in other’s opinion on that.
Roth allowed priority entry to following year for those in for 2020 plus an admin fee. They also offered priority entry to 3 of the next ten years events for another fee. This keeps a level of interest and buys loyalty
I won’t race this 3 times in next ten years but i thought that if it keeps the race going I can help. I don’t know what Challenge will do if races get cancelled again this year.
Regarding IM it’s more than the brand for me, or the organisation, I just enjoy swimming, biking and running. I really enjoy the demands of Lanza and Wales and am happy to pay the price, I can justify it.
But there are, or will be I hope, other races that develop.
It looks like 2021 will be Time Trialling, if triathlon comes back then Roth,
I guess Ant won’t be remembered for Ironman but if it has helped him then good luck.
Why do you think this? We’re already seeing examples of this not being the case.
Ironman South Africa has been cancelled again, currently rescheduled and pushed back to Nov 2021.
Like Adam, we can criticise Ironman as much as we want, but for a brand like them to take c£1k in entry fees from me for 2020 events, and then just claim t’s and c’s for why they can cancel again, keep my money, then make me pay afresh if I want to do it in 2022, is just not something I can see happening. I’d never race M-dot again. I think a lot of others would be the same.
I don’t even think that would be legal with IM Wales given the refund rights for cancelled events under UK law (less clear on Euro and other overseas positions)
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Ironman would be dead to me for sure!
Other races exist!
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I can also see them offering deferrals again, or staging smaller domestic only TT style races.
Just floating an option to stimulate debate.
Sorry,
Not sure what you mean by this?
If an Ironman event is cancelled, you have zero right to a refund.
It’s in the T’s & C’s.
No refund means no refund.
There’s already been a court case in the US about this.
For me the money is already spent on a card and was paid off a while back so as such wouldn’t be missed anymore if they didn’t refund/defer but it would be the last they saw of my custom. Not saying I wouldn’t like the £££ back of course.
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If I hadn’t already paid for Wales/Staffs I’d be tempted to go for Lanza and then defer to next year
Although a foreign race still seems a bit optimistic atm
Maybe I am conflating the position with things like tickets to events, and holidays, where there is a legal obligation to refund in the UK, with race entries. Although I’m fairly certain that the class action lawsuit in the US has no bearing on UK law. Reasonableness of contract T’s and C’s is more clearly governed in the UK as I understand, and unfair terms that you are forced to abide by are not always upheld.
You’ve also shown that the banks have a conceptual obligation, or at least willingness, as well to recoup money if what you’ve paid for has not been delivered. That demonstrates another angle to this.
I’ve not bothered with the charge back route yet, as I’m comfortable with deferred entries. But I would hazard a guess that if Ironman’s UK banking arm suddenly received 2-4,000 charge back, or s75, requests from banking counterparts, they’d not be looking too positively on their client.
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I agree with all of those points 
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I think my current situation with Texas is slightly different in that the even might go ahead but I can’t get into the USA, in which case I think they’d have less qualms about upsetting a handful of customers that are travelling from overseas and push us down the route of refunds via credit card companies if that’s covered.
Whereas if the event gets cancelled I think they’ll do what SA appear to have done and roll entries over, whether that includes alternatives of other races is less likely this time as a lot will be cancelled.
They’ve actually managed to put on an extra IM in America for 1 year only apparently, to generate some more income.
I think negative press like that might even put off others and even the 1 & done market might be reaching saturation as people decide that Ultra’s are more sexy now!
I should also say that I’ve got slightly less sympathy for people that have entered races this year hoping they’ll go ahead, and this includes me, I won’t be booking flights to Denmark just yet.
But I’ve got a large credit note with KLM that won’t last forever although I think I could ask them for the cash alternative. But tourism dependant countries will be putting pressure on governments to find solutions, as well as airlines.
Personally I’m still fairly optimistic despite all the ongoing fear rhetoric that things will ease in the coming months with the combination of vaccines & treatments.
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Our estimated vaccine date has moved from May to late March which is great if it’s close to accurate, the problem may be that where we’re headed isn’t in such an advanced position and so not open to visitors whether vaccinated or not
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Not the right thread but with current progress and discounting second jabs we’re well on target. If supply keeps up.
I wonder if giving the under 50’s a single jab will be enough given their lower risk anyway.
For another thread though.
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As expected I’ve heard nothing else from Ironman about Texas, I think I’m going to have to fill out the form and then either see if it gets cancelled, they relent nearer the time or try a credit card claim, I’m not sure if there’s a time length before you can make a claim or they’ll try and wriggle out of it based on the fact I entered in 2019.
Now also wondering about Denmark 70.3, I haven’t booked any travel and will see what happens when those idiots in government decide something about travel, I can hold off on that until nearer the time but was going to use Nirvana to transport my bike.
But, Boston have said if they get the go ahead off the Mass. governor etc. they plan to run an in-person race on Monday 11th October and will confirm in the months to come, alongside field size etc., @stenard
Will still be a risk though, although I think they’d give a full refund if they cancelled it.
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Thanks. I will probably reach out to my friends and hope I could stay with them. If so, then at least a last minute cancellation of the event doesnt leave me exposed to hotel costs.
Not ideal being 4 weeks after IM Wales, but it’s just about enough time. And in all honesty, the likelihood of them both going ahead is very very low!