New Shimano Groupsets

Not 1 but 2 new groupsets, Dura-Ace and Ultegra, both 12 speed with semi wireless DI2, looks quite impressive, but not so good for the wallet, wonder what the supply chain will be like.

I’m also guessing they’ll be releasing wired versions but it’s not obvious from this article.

DURA-ACE R9250 Wireless Di2 // Ultegra R8250 Wireless Di2 - BetterShifting

Why do they keep increasing the number of cogs? Is there really demand for 12 speed. Surely its just adding weight, complexity, and thinner components that brake more easily.

Keeping up with SRAM really I think, and maybe Campag. Their MTB group has had 12 speed for a while.

At least it’s compatible with 11 speed wheels which will help them.

I must be getting old but the more I see which way road cycling is headed, the less I want to do with it.


1x groupsets with a smaller jump.

Someone, one of these days will invest a groupies with 3 rings at the front


I kind of agree, close to selling up the road bike kit myself.

But if anything mountain bikes are far more prone to fashion led tech - Wheel size, single front chainrings etc.

Seriously thinking that a 29’ hardtail with relatively steep geo, 2x10 and a plethora of mounting points is all that I really need, it would certainly be much easier to take care of.


(If you want the power meter)

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This is a big thing for me. There was step change when chain rivets no longer protruded beyond the side plates (I think after 10 speed) which is a significant weakening of the drivetrain.
I’m not talking about in normal usage or ability to transfer power, more resistance to sideways forces, an over enthusiastic shift under power or a slipped chain jamming up.
It’s only anecdotal but I see more chain failures at races in recent years than I ever did in the past, the old 6/7/8 speed were pretty much indestructible.
I have no intention of moving from 10 speed as long as parts are still available to maintain them.


GPLama’s video says yes. You can still wire in the wireless shifters if you really want (not sure why you would?!). And moreover, if you want rim brake versions you have to go wired. I’m guessing the shifters for rim brake don’t have the wireless functionality? Seems a really strange approach. Either you want to force everyone to disc, in which case just don’t make a rim brake version, or make both. Whilst I know rim shifters will naturally have to be different to disc versions, and so you’d require 2 SKU’s anyway, that’s surely not true of the electrical components - wouldn’t it be easier to have as much of the shifter the same as possible?

Not seen anything on how TT bikes should be setup with this new di2 version. Moving all the functionality of the junction box and d-fly to the rear mech is nice and clean, and saves extra parts, but when you have four components at the front end on a TT bike (2x extension shifters, 2x basebar shifters), what do they all plug into if not still a 5-port junction?

No. They don’t.
It states that in the linked article.
And yes, for only 50 currency less, you’re getting a lot less for your currency.

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Yes, it was kind of a rhetorical question to setup my point about why it doesnt make sense to me to have such different features on the two SKU’s. Unless the new rim shifters also fail to incorporate any of the new ergonomic changes as well, and are effectively just the previous gen 11 speed shifters with updated firmware to allow them to operate 12 speed mechs.

ETA - in which case, it will be interesting to know if you can just buy the 12sp mechs and current 11sp shifters will operate them. As it’s always really been the mech that controls and drives the di2 shifts. You can press the shifter buttons all day, but when the rear mech knows it’s in the highest gear, it will stop shifting. Previous generations of di2 were all interchangeable from what I understand, except first gen 10sp dura ace.

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Yeah probably. I’ve only been into mtb for a couple of years, so jumped in at 29" Boost with 1x12 NX. Then got some new wheels and discovered I needed a GX cassette (different freehub), which meant a special tool (which I didn’t have).
I suppose in a way, mtb components wear so fast that opportunities to try new stuff are more incremental than the giant leap of road stuff.

I’ve got a gold Eagle chain on my XC, just because :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

With the road stuff, I have multiple bikes, multiple standard Including 11sp Campag and I’ve been riding now for close to 37yrs, so I’ve had more head scratching moments in road.

In my bike racing days I was absolutely anal about replacing stuff, cleaning, maintaining, over changing chains, cassettes, bar tape etc.
I still maintain my bikes well now but these days I’m much more ‘yeah that’ll last a bit longer’.

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It’s utterly pointless, I use about six gears;

52 x 13/14/15

36 x 30/28/27

Or thereabouts.

I used about three at the 113 :rofl::rofl:


That’s some jump from 52/15 to 36/27!

I did a little gravel adventure recently and I can see the attraction of 1x with a good range cassette on the rear. But for now I have 3 bikes that all fit 2x10spd rim brakes and it makes no sense to upset that status quo.

11 speed chains are university accepted to be better than 10 speed chains. This is not necessarily because the design of 11 speed chains is better but because the equipment that makes 10 speed chains is frozen in time since the release of 11 speed and the continued development of manufacturing, materials & coating for 11 speed chains. I’ve read that your better off buying an 11 speed chain for 10 speed bike but never done it myself as don’t have anything 10 speed.


Apologies, I meant mechanical rather than having wires and junction boxes.

I can’t see them dropping that section of the market yet?

I’m assuming that they’ll continue to make 11 speed mechanical for now. No indication if 12 speed mechanical is coming or if it’s going to stay electronic only. I can imagine a 12 speed mechanical Shimano 105 and above that is electronic only.

For the same reason you can buy an estate car with nearly 700bhp; it’s part arms race, part ‘moving forwards’ to generate product sales. I guess some of it is driven by 1x set-ups.

True, but the difference between a shitbox 180hp diesel estate and an Audi RS6 is an awful lot of fun.

11 speed to 12 speed, hardly noticeable surely. Nothing against innovation, wireless DI2 is a big step, and yeah 1 x setups. But there must be better places to innovate than let’s see how many cogs we can shove on the back

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There are. How many companies have we seen trying to come up with a workable gearbox for a bike. It’s the holy grail for drive chains.