We’re back into Strength Season aren’t we - how is everyone doing?
I’ve restarted SL 5x5 so wont get heavy for a while, then I’m considering a much lighter maintenance program when base starts for next year.
Does anyone recommend Joe Friel’s program?
Or tried the Scientific Triathlon principles?
AS I told you elsewhere Ive done my L2 strength coaching with British Weightlifting. One of the things Ive taken away that i was unaware of was how few exercises you should do per session, we are talking 3, maybe 4 at an absolute push. When I was a gym bunny in the early noughties the PT’s were giving me double that, no wonder I never really built well and ended up with far too many niggles.
That’s why I like the SL 5x5 programme, its 3 exercises per session, properly warmed up, compound movements, simple, no pyramids, drop sets, AMRAPs and all that jazz. Get in, lift some tin, fuck off
And as if by total coincidence I post this now 
@GRamsay me too
Trying to still keep it simple but make sure I’m not missing out on something.
Squat, bench, row
Squat, overhead press, dead
I can just make these light (say 60% of 5x5 max) and 2x5 reps, or:
Friel Maintenance Phase
4/5 movements per session
1 per week
2 sets 12 reps 60% 1RM or 2 sets 6 reps 85% 1RM
‘Choose’ 4 or 5;
1.Squat, single squat, deadlift, step up, lunge or leg press
2. Leg curl
3. Power clean
4. Bands - catch and pull
5. Front plank, side plank and/or front plank with rows
Sci Tri Maintenance Phase
3/4 movements per session
1 per week
2 sets of 4-5 reps at 80% 1RM
Choose 3 or 4 from;
Front squat, back squat, split squat, glute ham raise, step up, good morning, lunge, reverse lunge, power clean, leg press barbell row, close grip lat front pull down, rockers tricep push down, dips
I generally do x1 session most weeks through the year. If I miss a week it’s usually just because life got in the way. I generally follow something that Matt Jordan suggested, which is lift, push pull 3-4 sets of 3-4 reps all heavy. The last rep being difficult to left. Once I can ‘comfortably’ do 4x4 I increase the weight. I add on some deadbugs, cable rotations, sit ups, plank variants, etc.
Start that as 3 of 3 or 4 of 3 if you can do 12 IMO. Thats a lot of weight to 6 rep.
TBH I’ve no idea my 1RMs any way. I usually build up as much as I can, then cut it back based on some random internet logic.
Eg March 21 my 5x5 squat peaked at 95kg (I haven’t lifted near that since). I used 55kg as my maintenance load I think at 3x5 but might’ve been 5x5.
Happy to do 3x3 and less weight if it work 
Testing 1RM isnt really recommended for most athletes until you have a decent background
so can use these methods also :-
for us oldies, big weights low reps are the way to go, certainly in the winter. Then gradually load as Mr Peru says above, get to 4x4 maybe and then up weight a little. Be careful, load gradually and don’t be afraid to repeat a week if it feels a bit too hard. Timing is key also. A lot of people may consider doing weights after a run or something but that wont work. Could do 10-15mins as a WU only, but generally strength work should be the first thing you do to get the most out of it, followed by low aerobic “tri” training. It’s essentially anaerobic so adding a lot of fatigue also. To be honest it should all be about long term health for people like us anyway not “performance” really, but with good health, performance will usually follow. Exercises should typically start with the larger muscle groups first, don’t work your guns before your back for instance deadlifts are the most underrated exercise there is if done properly! back/front squats next on the list
Thanks @Hammerer, that’s interesting.
Certainly few tweaks to my gym work on the way.
I’m using 5x5 3/wk to get “up to speed” ans I’ve done for a few years now - or are you talking about what I’m calling ‘maintenance phase’?
Agreed. Tried that.
Early phases and light weights sure you get away with it, you’re just getting the movements comfortable really, after that 4hrs seperate, and when it’s really heavy, a separate day for lifting.
One caviat is that once, and unfortunately
only once, I did heavy squats and four hours later did a ramp test which broke all my PBs. I got a second wind and gained 20W on my FTP. Never got near again since though.
Any other thoughts on on the movements to use when you are in the once/week stage? As above I’ve tended to stick with squat/bench/row or squat/overhead/deads
It strikes me that both too much variety and too little variety could be detrimental. Overhead in particular feels good but may work against a swim session the next day.
Not too keen on the one legged Tasmanian weighted squat-lunge with a bike tube tied around my ankles type nonsense, but willing to be convinced 
Edit: apologies for the essay
If light weight high reps ( very high apparently) works for me… I don’t get injured and go to failure … ish, but don’t feel it impedes my tri stuff to much am I better off as I am?
It depends on the goal really, low weight higher reps is building “endurance” or more slow twitch and has its place in any balanced program. The opposite is building strength and power, more fast twitch. As we hit our 40s though we do need to do more power/strength work to slow muscle atrophy or Sarcopenia as its also called so could be worth mixing it up a little
Hard to say, what are your limiters? What goals do you have?
Once a week is paying lip service a little though, better than nothing but not going to make massive differences. I would probably suggest some bodyweight work 10 or 15minutes here and there, planks, pressups (incline/decline) dips, single leg (pistol) squats , plyometrics like box jumps up to start, down for more stress on legs, then both just to supplement
A decent 3 exercise “all over” set would be deads or back / front squats (alternate each week or session to mix it up), bench press and bent over row.
The (overhead) press trains delts and triceps only so Id question overall relevance in a time limited programme but could be a 4th exercise. Could add in a barbell lunge to mix it up and target lower body (although dead/squats train more muscle groups)
If you have someone to show good form Olympic lifts also add in some good variation.
I guess I’ve always avoided big weights as when I’m 100% tri focussed I try and get my upper body to go as small as possible.
I know most of it is calorie dependent but my top half builds muscle very very easily, my legs not sore much.
I’ll never look like Gustav Iden or even Lionel on the top half, high reps seems to get me fit, squatting an Olympic bar only for 100 reps will get anyone out of breath without building muscle, but raw leg power is quite weak in my case.
I will look at mixing it up without going too heavy in my future pt sessions
Thanks
Sounds like they’re pretty much the same, which @GRamsay summarised nicely:
Exercises being a mix of what you need to address weaknesses, but yes right principal of squat, hinge, push, pull, core.
If really want to gain strength then 2-3x a week for next few months, then maintain at 1x a week.
That’s the bit i’d change to keep maintenance phase a lot heavier eg 90-95kg, just less overall total load.
Like everything that was posted about reps, but the only thing I’d add as an option is starting week 1 ~8-10 reps, adding weight every week and letting those reps fall to ~4-5 over the first few weeks while keeping same intensity, rather than going straight in at 5rep close to max if haven’t been lifting for a while.
Typically do around 3 key lifts, and maybe 8 exercises per session, the additional being light control stuff during rest periods (eg 1-2kg Scapula work between heavy squats)
Mostly already answered, including in the scientific tri article you gave. I do think some variety is better, especially if you’ve been doing the same 5 lifts every year for past few years.
Back and front squat, Deadlift, Glute Thrusts, Bulgarian Squat, stiff Leg Deadlift, single leg squat, lunges, step Ups are plenty to keep you going and have some mix between quad and posterior dominant, and some that might challenge movement patterns a bit more.
I’ve done a lot less upper body this year thinking tri focus and don’t really feel it transfers as well.
Rows (with many different options, my go to being bent over 
) , pull ups, bench press (+/- a strict overhead press to try turn that into a more compound lift requiring trunk stabilisation) isa decent enough simple list for 2x pull 2x press.
But of work on shoulder external rotation and Scapula movements never a bad idea, not just for swimming but bike too and general shoulder health (eg face pull, shoulder rotations, YTLWs)
I’m currently doing the L3 BW strength and power course, its very in depth past the pretty basic L2 I previously did but much more inline with what i need as swim/tri coach. I’m currently studying the periodisation today which fitted nicely into @Mungo2 's point above. it seems the general prep phase can last as long as is required, and involves typically high volume / low intensity work. @joex should also consider a phase at this level also to prepare the body for the demands more intensity can put on a body. So more work on
which essentially sits closely with what i have always said previously, bodyweight work is key for most and only when you have good trunk, balance and mobility should the strength work move to the weights room. Its very much like any training really, you only add intensity when you have the foundations correct, good technique, good aerobic engine and all tendons and ligaments are used to the demands you are placing on them.
Learning so much through S&C at the minute that will help my swimmers and triathletes
More focus on this as we age seems to be the message, weights are important at any age for endurance sports but I think it’s as we produce less test we need a weight programme.
My plank and press up sessions can be quite extreme, and will be working with my pt on leg strength this winter. I really enjoyed the weights I did in the first half of the year but it was far too much / extreme for triathlon.
I tried something different this morning on your and several others advice, see how we go with that.
I very much agree, although i think mobility is often over played. I am not flexible in any real sense but have full ROM if that makes sense? There’s (IMHO) a lot of nonsense in the physical therapy world that has leaked into the coaching world around tight this and that. A lot of it seems to come from very much out of date thinking but is very pervasive. Hip flexors being the classic example with something like “OH NO 
you sit at a desk for work? You go to and from work sat down? How the devil are you still able to walk? Your hip flexors must be soooo tight!!” Actually they’re not tight at all, I have the full 16° of extension at the hip before my LSP start to move. Why hip flexors? Why aren’t either of my biceps tight, or anterior delt’s?
Should this hve on the the rant thread? 
You get my point I hope? Yes mobility is important and there can be transient tightness from a session whether resistance or aerobic traning and sure deal with it. If something is properly tightened by shortness of muscle then you will have to spend a long time dealing with it to improve mobility and doing that in the gym while strengthening will likely be quicker than just doing passive stretching. But if your e.g. hip flexors are tighting up during a run it is becaus they’re weak because you sit all day not shortened.
Like that they use trunk strength rather than ‘core’ both seem somewhat ambiguous.
