Should we change the name of this thread to Sub 2.54 then?
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yep, well done twhat, is that your first time? I think it is, but we have been hanging around these parts for a long time now! One thing I say is I love the ‘its in the bag feeling’. For me, it is the moment when I know the finish can be reached in 5 min/k’s.
So, I knocked out my 15th sub 3, I have decided I am not bad at this marathon lark.
As I said above up until late June, I was flying best shape ever, since then issue after issue.
Starting July my weekly k’age is as follows, (which would roughly be your traditional mara build and taper):
17,0,20,32,80,100,80,158,162,52,147,97 (inc 60 in one day), 32,70
So 3 big weeks, 2 ok weeks and not much else.
I did not taper, ran 26k on the Sunday prior, 21k Monday, full beans race on Tuesday (though without any top end, coming in at 18:30).
However, I do have a massive running base and some 4%'s, so I knew if I could clear the shit off my lungs I would be in with a chance!
Even now, I still have a bit left of my chest, but I would say the first time my lungs started to feel ok was the Friday I went to collect my race pack.
Anyway the race,
Auckland is first quarter hilly, big climb and descend over the bridge at 15k and then flat as a pancake, out and back but exposed.
Given my lack of top end, The plan was to take it easy going up, drop like a stone on the downs, and get the VF’s rolling in the second half.
And that is what I did, I think all my 5k splits are within 30 seconds of each other despite the awkward course, I had a slight wobble around 17-20k when my legs felt a bit fatigued after coming off the bridge, three people come past and I needed a shit, but when I looked at my watch I was still holding under 4:10’s. The final turn is at 31k and into a slight headwind, I remember being surprised at how close the 3 hour pacers were, but I think they came in at under 2:58!
However the good news is by then I felt good so I pushed on and started reeling quite a few on, reality is more likely I held pace, they all dropped theirs.
The last 2k splits were 3:48, 3:36 so I paced it well, and probably could have pushed a bit harder the whole way. As I sit here and write the drivel, as I am finally feeling more normal I am pondering running another in 3 weeks.
What is interesting, is I knew 3 other’s running it.
One has beaten me every time we have raced, including a park run a month ago. one I cant anywhere near at intervals on the track and one beat me by 45 seconds on Tuesday at the near 5k race. They had all had a significantly better build than me.
So on paper all faster or at least as fast as me.
One came in 2:57, one at 3:07 and one at 3:19.
However I have run a lot more marathons than them and now just ‘know’ what effort level to sit on for even splits from the start, so my take is you can have all the speed you want, but can’t beat years and years of experience and of mileage in the legs. (Though I do wish I had more speed! 
)
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Thanks for the write up… and the mention! You are indeed a machine when it comes to smashing out the marathons, it’s interesting to hear what you say about those quicker 5k runners. Although I think I’d also be well happy with your 5k pb!!!
This has been me to an extent in the past , often sub 18 5k but not translating that to a marathon. This was my 6th stand-alone , on top of 2 aborted attempts with Achilles issues and one in an Ironman, where I ran 3h24, still arguably my best Marathon performance!
It is indeed my first sub-3 despite often feeling in the shape to do it in the past… looking at it now I just wasn’t doing the mileage. My major take on it this year is that you need to be clocking times in your ‘indicator’ races BEFORE your marathon build. I ran a 1h24 half off limited training in June and built from there. It’s not the same to train 14 weeks, run a 1.24 half and think you can go sub 3. For me it wouldn’t work, although maybe it would for others, certainly I still seem to ‘outperform’ at shorter races.
Secondly the training… I think In the past I’ve been too timid. You need to run on fatigued legs. Every 20 miler I did with any marathon pace, I struggled to finish this year. Training was pretty relentless and I doubted myself because of this but it worked. You don’t need massive mileage, but you do need to keep the quality sessions in there. My training log is all on Strava if anyone wants to see it but as I mentioned… circa 850k over 16 weeks, with 200k ish at or quicker than MP.
So the race… first 5k twisty and turns through the city center, back through the race hub in the park and then out into the countryside. By 5 miles I seemed to be running around 2h56 pace which was the plan. I’d decided, despite my cold, there would be no half measures and if I was struggling I’d know at 5k and drop out at the hub… I felt fine. There was a pack off up the road and I had 2 ‘buddies’ with a similar goal. At 5 miles the course gets hilly, no major inclines but constant up and down really. We were punching up the hills and free wheeling down. I knew the worst of it was in the first half so when we hit halfway in 1.27.30 I thought it might come back to bite. At Mile 15 buddy 1 was up the Road and we were still on a 2.55 kind of time. I started to think it was too fast as the hills were still coming and tried to ease back a bit. 20 miles and 21 miles ticked by ok, then at 22 I hit the hill that did it for me. It was to be fair pretty much the last one but I wanted to stop. I was still running 4.16/k and I knew I had time in the bank so just get it done. At Mile 23 there was an exposed incline with the only significant headwind of the day. This killed me but I knew even 9 minute miles would get me back in sub 3. The last 2 miles back into civilization and the park really hurt but it turns out I was still running 7.20/mile. I knew I’d nailed it and when I went through mike 26 I thought I was in for 2.57 something so turned up the pace and went for a strong finish. I think all 4 calves and hamstrings pinged with cramp in the last 200 but all good, felt a bit wobbly after crossing the line but was fine after waving the first aiders away.
A bit sore today, a couple of badly blistered toes, which has been an ongoing issue since London 2018, but generally feeling very pleased with myself.
Marathons are a bloody long way. I’d like to do a flat one next year ( Chelmsford has 250m according to my Garmin) and will possibly do NYC or Chicago. No spring marathon thanks.
A week at work then off on holiday to sit by a pool and sip Pina Coladas. And chase the kids around.
Cross country when I get back 
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Well done.
Nice report and great to hear about the build up.
I’m planning to do similar. Build up slowly from now until New Year, slight lull, then another build to April
Nice write ups there both, and great races.
Deffo agree with your sentiment though @YKK - sorry to alwayds bring him up but @grifter is faster than probably all of us on here, yet it took him a fair old while to crack that sub 3. But once it was done once, then the floodgates are open i’d say!
@twhat love it mate, so happy for you to have nailed that. I think i’ll take the credit for telling you to crack on and do the race!! 
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Cracking running guys. Nothing like that feeling when you know it’s in the bag towards the last few miles.
8 miles instantly followed by a 10km race all at sub marathon pace (with 2 silly fast miles to start) yesterday as a last long run for me. Rounded out a shorter 40 mile week but with a large amount of that at Marathon pace, and now 2 weeks to go so full taper time for me now - of course I have woken up with a sore throat and cold today!
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Any advice for taper before a Marathon?
I am running on Sunday, I am planning to maintain a reasonable volume this week, but keep it to zone 1 or low zone 2. mix if running, cycling and swimming
Paranoid about dropping too much as it makes me feel really sluggish
My understanding of the general approach is the opposite. Reduce volume but maintain intensity. Allows you to freshen up, whilst keeping the body firing. Also interested in the thoughts of others however
Yeah I would agree. Volume should be minimal. I planned an easy 4 mile run on Tuesday and Thursday with 2k at MP. I only managed the Tuesday as I was ill. I think a steady 1k swim is a good taper workout, enjoyed it on Saturday evening.
Reduce volume, maintain frequency.
The week before my PB marathon was
Tue = 3 miles easy
Wed = 3 * 1 mile marathon pace
Fri = 2 miles easy with a few strides
Sat = 2 miles easy with a few strides
Sun = race day
It has just dawned on me that I have no plan, and have not trained specifically for a marathon
However, I am feeling really good, took nearly a month off running after Nice, but put in 120km over past 2 weeks, and legs feel good
I know I can run at 4:18/km in the run leg of a 70.3, I will probably start at this pace then just see what pace I can get to while maintaining HR around 160. Honestly anything less than 3h15 will be good
Weather forecast is sunny, 11 degrees in morning and coming up to 19 degrees later in the day, and no wind
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Best of luck!
This may be controversial but…
Dont taper!
What is your goal?, given you don’t have a plan (I rarely have a plan) you are unlikely to be at your absolute peak so don’t be too phased about it. You are clearly fit and will be able to finish, if you are not run fatigued, which I would guess you are not then all you will do is suffer fitness loss.
If you have the running endurance you will easily go under 3:15, if you don’t, you wont, that is nothing a taper can fix in 5 days.
I believe you cycle to/from work, I would continue to do that, I always did when in London.
Tapers are really for people smashing out big milage weeks who are trying to peak for a pb (such as twhat recently), or big loads of weeks pre Ironman, or new folk doing their first big race.
As I said above I ran 26 k on Sunday and 20k, on the Monday, 5k race on the Tuesday before the race this week.
Having said all that if you can, I would probably have Friday off completely!
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My marathon was at York Uni, we managed to park half a mile away and I walked to start line with 5 mins to spare. Jumped the barrier between the 3:15 and 3:30 pacers. Pen was really packed. Off we go and I start to weave through people. My plan was to hold 4:14ish.
Went through first km in 3:58 but some of that was downhill so I knew it would be faster. In the 2nd km I overtook the 3 hour pacer and my split was 3:51. Into the 3rd km and I felt I was starting to get into a comfortable rhythm, garmin buzzed to show 3:52 split. I tried to breath and slow the pace down, 4th km: 3:54. My HR was slowly creeping up to high 150s so I really tried to slow myself down. First 5km split: 19:36. It’s quite hard to marginally slow pace without losing rhythm/cadence. I was in two minds, I knew I was going too fast but I felt really comfortable so I tried to keep relaxed and lock in with groups. Next set of splits:
- 10km: 39:28
- 15km: 59:39
- 20km: 1:19:39
- 25km: 1:39:55
- 30km: 2:00:38
I was feeling pretty good and holding the pace reasonably well with the odd 4:15. My HR had crept up again and was averaging 160 (5-10 over my target). Nutrition wise, I’d taken 3 gels with me + few jelly babies, plan was to grab some more gels as needed on the course. Had the first one at 15km, then every 8-10km I think? My nutrition is always a bit ad-hoc.
Everything changed on the 33rd km. A massive pain in my lower abdomen - maybe just a stitch but nothing like I’ve ever felt before! Instantly had to slow right down to 5/km pace. I nearly stopped to walk but managed to just keep the legs ticking over. I alternated my breathing (in for 3, out for 2) this normally helps to reduce any stitch. Which it did but it had dented my rhythm and I felt pretty grim. I took my final gel which gave me a much needed mental/physical boost.
Over the next 5km I managed to hold onto 4:45/km pace. Went through 35km in 2:22:47. My pace started to drop down to 5/km again and loads of people were overtaking me. I think it was at 40km the sub 3 pacer cruised past. I tried to pick up my feet but couldn’t deliver, my HR had dropped to 150. There’s a small hill before the finish so tried to compose myself. There was a decent crowd cheering everyone on. I’ve normally got something left to push towards the finish but I was just concentrating on trying to hold any pace I had left!
Up and over the hill and the finish line was in sight (just 50m from where I handed my thesis in with 5 mins spare 9 years ago). Over the line in 2:58:08! This was my first standalone marathon so I expected to have plenty of lessons to learn from it but generally really pleased!
Thoughts on the day:
- Perfect weather, great course and crowd
- If I’d have held a slightly slower pace of 4:05/km initially would I have avoided that mega stitch?
- Training wise I would have liked to have done more long runs (and overall mileage) but it’s hard fitting it in around family and work life.
- Work more on alternate breathing, especially for longer distances
- I’m planning to go back next year and if I can get more training in, set a target of sub 2:50.
Legs, especially quads have been quite tendor. Went for my first jog out today (to the pool) which felt ok. Need to read up on when to start building up again.
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Well done d.t. Couple of comments.
That sub 3 pacer is way to fast
Though if you had followed them it would helped regulate that pace early on.
On your own it is always hard to regulate pace, especially when you feel good.
Way way back I thought I could hold a 170hr, went through half way in 1:22 something, then at 16 miles I blew, the next 10 miles which seems really short when you say it were the worst 10 miles of my life, I had to get under 3:05 for GFA and under 3:00 to get some kudos, I couldn’t get my HR up above 150, I made it, but I know how grim it is when you go out too quick.
FWIW I never even averaged a half with a hr at 170 so I have no idea where that idea came from!
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@d.t great run… I am hoping that my marathon on Sunday goes in a similar way.
I would love to go back to York University for the run, probably have to wait until I move back in the UK at some point in the future
@YKK this is pretty much my rational… I am rubbish at tapering, and some of my best performances have come off Back to Back races. Legs do feel tired today, possibly DOMS from setting new bike FTP on Sunday, so will now back off a bit more
I was planning to swim this morning, but felt that an extra hour of sleep was more valuable
Call him Cam
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Wurf Wurf
Yeah I think he finished around 2:57
Thanks and good luck for Sunday!