Based on me going 3.39 on Sunday.
I have had a 43.30 10km this year but am currently more like 45.00 10km shape. Haven’t ran a 5km in anger for ages but probably around 22min
1 Like
It’s going to be hugely personal… at my ‘prime’ (which was a long time ago now) off relatively little running I could do sub-20 5km, but my times dropped off (significantly) as I went up distances 10km 43min, 1/2 1:35 and marathon 3:43
My training consisted of parkrun and a 1hour training session with my tri club. Plus I was doing 2-3 hours swimming (which is really what I credit my cardio to get me through the 5km to) and one bike ride.
1 Like
Ouch, a 1:35 half seems like a long way off for me…but we all need reach targets eh? 
While Im hoping for a 5k PB on Jan 1st, Im not overly training for it but a 45min 10k was going to be my next target.
Getting 3:30 fit as a triathlete is a challenge, but my endgame is to run a 4h IM run leg so I need to sort it out. 
1 Like
I’ve done 17:xx for 5km, done 38:xx just out for run for 10km, and managed 3:38 for a marathon, so maybe 16:xx for 5km?
The reality is, it mostly depends on how much you train, as it’s more about not fading than having the pace, so it’s all about enough training to execute, rather than the speed, you don’t need much speed to run 3:30, just need to still be able to do the last 10km at that speed after the first 3, most people achieve that by actually being much faster at their first.
1 Like
3:30 on Sunday at the end of a 16 hour week with 3 x 14 km runs ( very slow) at the start of the week, 2 kg ish over summer race weight, so not optimal but still not a bad effort.
Took my three goes abs a few interval sessions to get my 5 k down from 22 to 20 on a treadmill, did 20:12? In a sprint tri this year, off the bike from hell.
I cycled lots this year… I’m no faster on two wheels, but it seems to have helped long distance running…?!
From a personal point of view I did lots of running at 12 kph ( 3:30 ) pace on t mill and outside, at about 75-78 % of max hr.
10.5 kph is 4 hour pace, the first few hours at this pace would need to feel comfortable as we all fade towards the end slightly
It’s a good challenge !
1 Like
That seems way off to me. You should be closer to 3.10 at least,
2 Likes
I went sub-3 off those sort of 5 & 10K times. And my marathon ‘conversion’ has never been great.
1 Like
It’s Jim … he loves winding people up with his random run times/methodology!!
2 Likes
Exactly. It was fairly clear that Jim’s point was to run a marathon in a particular time, you need to be marathon trained. Your 5k and 10k times are going to be largely irrelevant.
Even half marathon times are largely irrelevant. In 2017 I did 1:22 followed by a 3:25. In 2019 I did 1:19 followed by a 2:48.
1 Like
Well I was mostly pointing out that marathon is not about times, almost everyone young and not overweight has the 5km time to run a sub 4 hour marathon - it’s going to be around 25 minutes, but very, very few people who can run a 25 minute 5km but no better ever manages a 4 hour marathon, because the training and execution required doesn’t work - as anyone who trains enough will likely improve their 5km anyway as they are not close to their max at 25 minutes.
So, it’s a total red-herring to look at “what 5km time do I need to run a 3:30”, you need to think, how do I get fit enough to execute a 3:30 marathon, and as part of that you’ll find out what 5km you’ll manage - but it’s likely going to be a lot faster than the theoretical pace required to run 3:30.
To run 3:30, you probably need to be able to do around 21:xx.
No-one says “I can run 5km in 18 minutes today, therefore I should go 2:55 in next weeks marathon” (which is roughly right in aerobic fitness demands), they recognise that the training and execution is what matters to the marathon time - it’s the same the other way.
Oh i know all that. It was just delivered in your inimitable style! 
Hmm, well I don’t agree that it’s a total red herring if the question is to prepare for marathon training, but I understand and agree with your point. Obviously, I hope, I’m not suggesting for one minute running a fast 5k then sitting on my arse for a few years until marathon race day! 
What I am talking about is progress goals, which I do think are relevant, that set me up for a marathon performance should I put in the long runs, volume for perhaps a 2022 marathon. But if progress goals aren’t your thing, fair play.
Just wanted to pull this up from 2019 in light of your 3h 39m 
1 Like
Of course, progress goals are important, but a progress goal for a marathon is not a 5k time. It’s a by-product. You can’t infer anything truly meaningful about potential performance in an upcoming marathon from a 5k time. It can give some confidence that your training is having an effect, as if you’re trained well for a marathon then you’re naturally going to have improved the aerobic systems that will facilitate a decent 5 or 10k (not an optimal one, but a decent one). But you can’t look at the 5k time and say, bingo.
The PB 10k I did in advance of my December marathon last year was, as I called it at the time, a “confidence boost”. But the key markers for my target marathon pace were my weekly Thursday and Sunday long runs, where I’d progressed to running comfortably in excess of 15 miles at goal pace. The 10k performance was just a nice ego boost. It was not the case that if I hadn’t gone under 36 minutes then 2:50 was off the cards. And so it was not a progress goal. Having key sessions in training, specific to the marathon prep, that I executed well, we’re my key landmarks
2 Likes
Yes, so I think in light of the discussion we can go back to my original question;
“My marathon goals for 2021 are to be capable of a sub-4 marathon, Im not actually planning to train at mara distance.
What kind of target times at 5k, 10k and half marathon can I set for a 3:45 marathon or 3:30?”
Or is it the word capable we are objecting to? Perhaps “capable of training for”
1 Like
I think you really do need to be sub 19min 5km time, sub 40min 10km time to be thinking about a 3:30 without attempting proper marathon execution training. And even then you’ll likely be needing to dig yourself a real hole on the day - that would not be enough for me, I just don’t like pain enough.
Are we also missing the clarity that I’m not attempting a marathon without putting in the training?
1 Like
Oh, hang on, I misunderstood even more - you’re not actually considering doing a marathon at all, you just want to know what sort of run shape would be a good target to enable you to later train for a marathon, that’s a completely reasonable question.
If you get to 20min for 5km, a 3:30 marathon should be very doable.
2 Likes
Under promise and over deliver.
2 Likes
Strongly considering doing another mara this Autumn. Debating between Chelmsford and Abingdon, think both still are accepting applications.
Anyone done either and can help me pick one?
Edit: I also know a few heading to Manchester which could be a contender.
2 Likes