So….swimming for me. Bane of my weekly schedule. Dread it and so I only go two times a week. I probably am not making any progress because I am going only……
My easy pace is 2:00/100m SCM with fairly lazy/easy open turns. I can flip turn, albeit badly, but get so out of breath my 2:00 pace thereafter feels ‘lactatey’.
In my two sessions I generally do 1.8-2k each. 400/500 warm up, where I feel I can hold good* form before dipping into 10 x 100 holding 1:45 off 2:10ish or 20 x 50 holding 1:40 off 2:10. I end with 4/500 easy which I usually resort to PB so my form doesn’t fully deteriorate.
I am slowly coming round to the idea of trying to put some effort into my swim and will join a club. Probably think to focus on form mostly and dropping distance/time in pool per session if I feel like I am reverting to incredibly slow & sloppy type. Last (also first IM) was a 1h26 super easy effort in the sea. Last half before that was 39 min (river).
I’ve read this whole thread and have come away with two main points (apart from all the amazing advice):
Bad: others feel the the same where form drops towards the end…
Good: others feel the same where form drops towards the end…just at much faster paces.
I was kind of hoping for a magic bullet and instead I just got some reasonable, actionable advice. Ffs now where are those ketones.
Consistency is the key for me. I’ve been back swimming for around seven weeks now with just the two club swims per week, I’ll up this with a weekly lake swim once it warms up. The club swims are a bit of a game changer for me tbh and something I should have done years ago. On my own I typically wouldn’t swim much further in a pool than 2km and I would fall into the habit of swimming at one speed. Having someone tell you what to do and other people to swim with has been great. The variety in each session is a great way to break it up and I now typically swim between three and four km per session. Also getting a good feel for the water now and feeling like I’ve built a bit of endurance.
El Nino missed a week with an ankle issue, last week, he said he felt like he’d never swum before but soon got back into it, this is typical though for a lot of triathletes. Spend most of a session just getting back to how they felt at the end of the last one. You get to a point of diminishing returns no doubt and many “real swimmers” can do tri and lead swims on a once weekly masters session, but even they, relatively, will struggle on less than 4 (every other day) @Chriswim will confirm that one no doubt
Yes, I am hoping the club swims can also help with developing the different gears. My recent intervals have been aimed at doing this, though I think I now need to mix it up a bit
OK so real speed work is considerably less than that in most cases, but with more rest.
my general rule of thumb would be .
sprint training, would do something like 4 * (4 * 50) 10m sprint easy to end 15m sprint / 20m sprint / then 50m recovery all off 2mins for an 800m main set totaling 32 minutes
or just 15m sprint easy to end 25’s off 1min if holding 20sec length pace (1:3 work/rest)
you could do single length sprints also, targets a slightly different mix of energy systems, again 1:3 work/rest
This type of session is great for building a faster stroke rate, you build swim specific strength , some science about water becoming more dense at faster speeds, oh and when you learn to grip the water well at speed, slow it down and it feels so easy!
VO2 max, so in your case i would say that’s around your 200m pace, maybe 8 * 50, 1:1.5 - 2 work/rest
the idea is to rest enough that you hold the same form and high pace throughout. this will held build more race specific speed, its another gear but still a big aerobic contribution. This will really help you hold a good speed throughout a race.
you just need to mix it up a bit. if swimming 3 times a week do one of these types of sessions once. I would also in squads add “take home sprints” or a contrast set which may be as short as 200-400m of real sprints in an aerobic conditioning set (8 * 25 off 1min for kids holding 15seconds) , or drills in a sprint set
I bought Fundamentals of Fast Swimming: How to Improve Your Swim Technique by Gary Hall (snr) and Devin Murphy.
An interesting read so far although I am just going through the freestyle chapters. Already made a couple of tweaks that seem to have helped. Pleasingly there’s some bits where it reinforces what I have adopted through swimming, rather than what I have read or seen. Need to go back over it a few more times but @Hammerer will like that he values kicking.
Gary Hall snr still has the best post on slowtwitch IMHO.
Blockquote
sprint training, would do something like 4 * (4 * 50) 10m sprint easy to end 15m sprint / 20m sprint / then 50m recovery all off 2mins for an 800m main set totaling 32 minutes
Do I interpret this correctly as:
4 rounds of 4*
10m sprint, 15m easy
15m sprint, 10m easy?
Understood the other variation with 15m sprint/ easy to end with a 1:3 rest ratio. I don’t think I could do that in 20s but would obey the rest ratio.
VO2 Max
TT to work out 200m pace, then use this for 8x 50 at pace w/ 1.5/2 x rest vs work.
Structure
Do one of the above (or variation) on one of 3 swims a week, adding in some sprint work to other sessions.
I swam earlier and nearly jacked it in early into the 20 x 50. Held 1:34-1:43 pace throughout: form was ropey at the start, improving towards the end once I largely stopped thinking too much. My left arm felt like it was pulling through wide, not to mention my dropped elbow (both sides). These are the sort of pointers I am hoping to get w/ someone poolside.
nearly so they are 50m intervals , 10m sprint 40 easy, 15 / 35 , 20/30 then 50 recovery . I use those distances because you have markings on lane ropes, nothing majorly scientific about those specific amounts In a “top” squad I may use 15/20/25 rather than 10/15/20 as they get 10m off the wall rather than the typical 5 most improver adults will get
So this is around 4-5min pace, for my squads that will be 400pace i will use, for someone like yourself id guess 200 is close, again it doesnt have to be “to the second” accuracy after a while you will just “feel” the pace you need
there is no substitute to regular poolside feedback. Ideally every session should be coached, why do you think swimmers improve so much, because feedback on stroke mechanics is constant! you could do the best technique session in the world but if you do a 16 * 100 “threshold” set straight after and spend 8 of those reps muscling through, all those stroke improvement gains are being “forgotten”
this is a key issue with novice triathletes / swimmers. they have a target event in mind, need to build fitness but end up just doing miles of repetition of poor strokes. There’s almost a reason to do 6months of “lessons” with no target race or distance goals so fitness isn’t a concern, just repeat good strokes 1000’s of times
On the technique part, I am afraid you are basically talking about me…hence the need for regular feedback. I have tried for small-group coaching but the availability of coaches in my area is slim, hence trying a local bigger group.
To be honest, given the almost negligible gains I have made in the swim over the past 18 months I have regularly thought about sacking it off altogether ex some pool and OWS sessions in the last few months pre-event as and when I fancied it, reallocating the time elsewhere. However, before I do that I’d like to give swimming a concerted effort to improve.
I live abroad but when I am back, I may try and come along. My folks live Meopham-way so nowhere near any pool, requires a drive regardless. Usually go to WhiteOaks which is pretty good post-refurb. 25M. Some weird pool booking system/ timing constraints but, that aside, always found it clean and v surprisingly, most of the people there seem to be friendly and open to discussion i.e. moving lanes around so everyone can focus on what they want to do.
I have swum a bit in West Wickha - it’s a bit grim inside, showers were cold when I went and the 33m pool throws me out!
Yeah we used to hate every Monday morning after ~48 hours off, even when swimming 20hrs a week. Meant we lost our Sunday rest days close to British trials etc.
Mr Mrs has struggled along for around 10 years since we quit properly, and now thinks she’s stopping for good as hates how hard she finds it if she isn’t going 2-3x a week. Some periods of enjoyment in there but hates starting over each time, whereas at least with other sports she’s used to feeling turd.
Once anyone is past the pure beginner stage I think it’s the same for everyone here that it’s very difficult to improve in any of SBR without >3x sessions a week. Which means for most of us time crunched folk trying to periodise times of allowing one or two sports to slip into maintenance/detraining whilst working on the others
In a “top” squad I may use 15/20/25 rather than 10/15/20 as they get 10m off the wall rather than the typical 5 most improver adults will get
