Not only is there probably perfection in swimming…there will be perfection in each individual swimmer…whether you would know that for each swimmer, or know it if they got there is a different matter…
yep…that is encouraging…but Ernie* was quite absolutist in his initial interpretations…
*i wonder how much he learnt from riding the fastest milkfloat in the west?
1 Like
his initial stuff was based a lot on Counsilmans original work; later disproved
1 Like
Doc…
1 Like
When Brett Sutton self labeled “The Doc” I no longer used that for the official Doc 
2 Likes
I am quite careful not to be too pushy really, it’s generally bribery based… You come swimming with me and I’ll treat you to a Taco Bell, and if you work hard a “Quesadilla Cravings Box”, nine soddin’ quid they cost ! He doesn’t need bribing so obviously to go to club sessions though.
As an example of not being pushy he decided not to do the Yorkshires and I never put any pressure on him to do so. He didn’t want to come “near the bottom”, though in actual fact, assuming he’d swum on his PBs (all of which are over 9 months old, so a bit of “Yorkshires motivation” and he might have done better still), he’d have come just below half way on two events and in the top quarter on the 50 Fly. Not bad for a little 'un !
5 Likes
Watching Brett Hawke interview with Tony Betis, a top swim coach from the US and currently at PASA in Cali. He’s basically talking kick in one section and on average his squad are doing 40% of their weekly volume in some form of kick!, in off season more! That’s crazy volume, and no a triathlete would unlikely need all that (although it wouldn’t hurt in off season occasionally to do larger% of volume) but again shows just how important it is.
5 Likes
FWIW when I actually did kick sets it coincided with my best swimming times even though I was still only a bit less crap but it felt like my timing and position was better.
If did 10m into full it was noticeable how much better it felt.
But I haven’t done any for some time now 
4 Likes
Is that just strength though, core and kick? I can’t see anything on kick technique compared to what we see on the non-kick parts of the strokes.
I still do 2-400 kick in a 2000m session. With fins because I will simply stop moving once the momentum from the wall fades. Dolphin/caterpillar does propel me.
I’m more interested in a two beat kick now, minimise effort, focus on balance. It seems much harder to kick from the hip on a two beat though, and if I’m honest I don’t see the effort saving in heart rate.
1 Like
Its a mixture, so there’s strength in the form of crossed arms kick on back (arms above head, each hand touching other elbow, tombstone kick (hold board out front but vertically), power from fast kick with fins, and endurance work, with fins. one he quoted was 9 * 100 on 3minutes.
this mixture will also be form kick and fly kick, kicking on sides, fly on sides, on back (breaststroke fr. and bk. if that’s form stroke) so its not just grab a board and go up and down like most triathletes do.
For tri, to bring it on topic, I recon K.on Side , 0 arms, kick on back, kick on front, fly kick all with and without fins / snorkels could be hugely beneficial as you are getting fitness benefits also from this.
edit link to short on just kicking, full video is on Brett’s channel as well. He manages to get some great guests on it you are interested, Eddie Reiss was brilliant (just about the most decorated coach in US history) and Dan Wiffen a few weeks back was good, he was very open and shared some of his sessions pre Olympics.
3 Likes
as with all drills and activities, doing ‘some’ and taking that feeling into the full stroke is where the development lies…
2 Likes
a symptom of not kicking effectively…
fins will help develop the body position and an effective kick, but then take them off and take the movement and position into a non fins drill…
2 Likes
Miscounted a 400TT. 450m in 6:46 
16 Likes
Thats seems really odd that that doesn’t convert to a ~?5:40? Certainly something a lot under 6. Not a chance I could have held 400m RP off 10s rest.
3 Likes
I did 450m at basically 1:30 pace so I’m sure there’s a sub 6 in there.
I just don’t have a top end so 1:27 is like my all out 100m, so I guess thats a ceiling.
7 Likes
Yeah I saw that, but as you say that’s probably a 5:55-5:58 effort. Which is great on its own, but the sustained endurance is even more phenomenal, but yes shows a ceiling of where the next gains would be
6 Likes
This sounds like graet progress…
4 Likes
Tempo trainers seem overly expensive for what they are and how long they last. I use mine a lot though, well not a lot but for plenty of swims.
Quite chuffed last night. Short w/u then wanted to do 10x 200m in about 3:30 off 3:50 (lane traffic permitting). Was pretty consistent coming aroun 3:32-3 for the first 4. Then traffic had me at 3:47. Then back but rep #7 came in at 3:37 and 8 at 3:42. Decided 4x 100m at 1:45 would be a better finish.
Pleased I was able to pace on feel with periodic clock checks (big digital clock to my side) and that was pretty much my current 15x 100m (1:44) pace until.
7 Likes
Completely agree, they are an important tool & Finis have cornered the market on a simple device with no alternatives.
I know folk with original ones that have lasted many battery changes. With the new ones you’re lucky to see a battery change before they pack in.
I buy from Amazon & have neen able to return the TT 3 times.
3 Likes