That makes so much sense… thanks Hammerer… that’s a properly ‘golden nugget’ post!
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So you want to end the stroke when your hand is vertical pointing down?
Any further action will be pushing you down into the water instead of forwards?
Also, I often think of my arm forcing me over a barrel as I perform my stroke.
One of my hands wiggles, the other one doesn’t.
I’ve tried to make it not, but two of my fingers on one hand are multiple breaks and trigger finger - so it’s pretty hard!
I get that ‘wiggly’ hand thing too when i’m tired…
that ^^ legs get pushed down if the hand pushes up. obviously there will be some of this, but its about minimising it.
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That’s interesting too in as much as I’ve worked really hard on making sure i’m using my lats better, as I think for some time I’ve been trying to ‘muscle’ my stroke and using my delts/traps way way too much, which are smaller and tire more quickly… I’ve found that (besides rotation being much more important to use the lats) that the hardest thing has been to keep my lats engaged in the later parts of the pull… a shorter pull with an earlier exit would help here, plus also help with a quicker recovery and higher stroke rate… it all seems to hang together nicely!
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I was thinking about this just the other day, thanks.
That’s an impressive ROI, I did a 1:16 on my first IM swim, just 18 months after starting to learn front crawl. Its now 5 years later & my last 3 IM swim splits are still only 1:05.
Will reply here given it’s clearly popular, and the rant thread has moved on.
The reason I split lanes there is because I could probably count on one hand the number of times there’s ever been three people in that lane on a morning. The fact the other lane was empty shows how quiet the pool is, and I more often than not have a lane to myself.
Most people I find are happier splitting lanes rather than have me get in their way and worry about me overtaking them, which would happen approximately every 4 to 6 lengths. Plus for me if I am doing a session it seems easier to not have to worry about interrupting rest intervals?
As for causing disruption to a set should a third person get in, I’m not sure it needs to, I’d just immediately start swimming round in a circle in the direction given, most likely without needing to stop especially in your 1500m example. Given that relies on decent intelligence/awareness from other swimmers, but as it’s generally only the regulars swimming early morning at this pool I’m probably more fortunate than average.
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This is often an issue! I swim at a health club, and whilst in the main I get a lane to myself and just use the middle until someone else gets in. I swim during the day so it’s quiet thankfully. Sometimes people jump in with me, then realise that I am actually going quicker than it looks from the poolside and they move across to the ‘medium’ lane.
Back in the summer, a guy who is actually a fairly good swimmer tbf, he jumped in with me whilst I was doing 50/100 alt intervals. As always I managed to avoid any real overtaking issues by varying my rests and pushing-off in front of him, but there were a few clashes of hands. Now I very rarely clash hands with anyone, and it’s normally their lax left arm recovery. When I came to a halt at the end of my set, my hand touched his foot as he stopped in front of me. This triggered a little rant from him that I had ‘no etiquette’ and I was ‘thrashing up & down’. Tbh I was a little taken aback with his moaning about my swimming intervals, given his ability and knowledge of etiquette; he likes to just plough up & down and I was clearly affecting his state of serenity. So I simply said “point taken” rather than tell him his arm recovery was shite and to f* off. He has always avoided swimming in a lane with me since then 
Sorry, mis-remembered!
2008 Forestman = 1:48 swim, 6hr bike (First IM)
2009 Forestman = 1:13 swim, 5:54 bike
2010 Outlaw = 0:59 swim, 5:22 bike
2011 Outlaw = 1:02, 5:26 bike
2012 Outlaw = 1:02, 5:20 bike
Got my 400 time down from >8mins to 5:25 over that time.
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Your 5:25 400 would suggest some sizeable ‘speed decay’ then.
5:25 was in 2013, when I’d dropped IM and did London Sprint Worlds, so was chasing 750 in 11 minutes.
My experience of Nuffield pools is the same as yours, but almost everyone does what Chris describes for those exact same reasons. Like he says, switching to circular is easy, so long as you are aware. The issue is most people just arent.
It infuriates me that Nuffield have lane recommendations, but people don’t abide by them. If you are going to do head up breast stroke, and the fast lane is free, and the medium and slow lane has one person in each, DON’T go and start in the fast lane.
I also had a similar experience to Jorgan, although mine turned into a full slanging match in the middle of the pool. Randomly it was busy, and other “swimmers” in the fast lane ganged up on me, with phrases such as “this isnt a race you know”. Lifeguard came over, who sees me swimming regularly, and told them all I was correct and that the faster swimmer has lane priority and that others need to move over at the end of the length, or get faster. They all went a bit silent after that.
Yeah, the Lifeguard just looked at me with a shrug and wondered what the guy was kicking off about.
THIS. Generally I’ll fully accept that if a pool is busy everyone has just as much right to swim etc etc. And that I can’t expect other people in the “Fast” lane to be my standard.
But couple of weeks ago I did ask someone to get out (ironically because I didn’t want to swim 3 in a lane 
), and then get lifeguard involved when he didn’t. Elderly, head up breastroke, doing 1 length slower than 3 of mine, and one slow lane was empty and the other had one person in.
Lifeguard also was reluctant to get involved, but I argued if slow lane was quiet and I started getting in and sprinting next to people/swimming butterfly I’m positive I’d be asked to leave for disrupting them.
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Butterfly is always useful to start doing when you think someone is going to enter your lane
Thanks for yet another great post.
So I now have some numbers from the pool this afternoon. I did 10 sets of 50m (25m pool). Started at 24 strokes per length. Got that to 22 with a bit of work. Averaged 52 seconds for the sets, which is fast for me, especially as I’ve done next to no swimming in the last year.
I intentionally speeded up my stroke to avoid gliding and also finished my stroke at the hip as suggested but this presented 2 problems.
- the speed of my stroke allowed no time for rotation, so was swimming pretty flat.
- very little time to breath, same issue as with point 1. When I did breath I noticeably slowed in the water.
That aside, that’s as fast as I’ve ever swam, and given the fact I’ve not bothered at all this year, I’d say it’s a good start.
another good swim tonight… sets of 50m, with a decent rest interval… and trying hard to make sure pull is completely in the right direction and with a nice high elbow, and stopping at waist before my hand starts to rotate upwards… and a new fastest ever average time!!!
Only downside… my pool has decided that hand paddles aren’t allowed other than if you are in a swim club session…for most swim sessions, they put a lane in, which I am invariably on my own in, but no, still not allowed paddles in that lane… tonight was ridiculous… not only, not allowed paddles despite being completely alone in my lane, but the swim club using the lane next to me with 6 people in it, all using paddles… apparently, its ‘health and safety’…
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Great swim for me as well tonight. Despite being shattered, we did a long set with 400’s, 300’s and 250’s. I was trying to swim 400’s as efficiently as I could, and was really pleased with swimming sub 6:45’s without over extending myself. I am swimming 18-20 SPL and Garmin shows 58 SPM… now need to get that SPM up to 66
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Tempo trainer has arrived. Just have to wait until next week to try it. Will probably do the spm ramp and see where it all breaks down
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