On the 400 it was 1.8m, on the 100’s around 2m, on the 250’s (when tired) 1.65m
I was doing 24-28 strokes per length
In a 50m pool? I assume this is from a Garmin, and therefore only talking about the strokes from 1 arm?!
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Thorpe used to race at 32 (arm pulls) but could get down to 24 on long steady swims.
Yes, Garmin records the full cycle, so 48 to 56 based on individual arms
I think I really need to work on DPS, I can’t remember exactly what is was last time I counted but think it was 17 for a 25m pool.
17m per stroke? That is impressive 
I generally try to keep turnover high, to keep the momentum going.
you know what I mean
17 is a great benchmark. You don’t need to reduce that. 15 at a push. Many adult males turnover is too low , that should be about 70 SPM + (Im a prime candidate for upping that). Whilst its not ideal when turning etc a tempo trainer is a good tool to use to help understand stroke rates.
Is it? OH.
Probably my 50 something spm that I need to focus on then.
Yeah I’m around 50SPM as well, I just don’t find I get much faster upping the stroke rate but I do get a lot more tired.
I can echo this. I feel I lose DPS too.
What I should test is where my stroke rate is actually at. I’ve thought about getting a tempo trainer for a while. I don’t trust Garmin spm numbers, as I’m guessing they will be heavily influenced by the period of no strokes after each turn?
Me too. I do have a tempo trainer but use it for pacing per length rather than spm. Will have to do the swimsmooth ‘sweet spot’ test and stop avoiding because I know it’s so tiring to up stroke rate
Looking at my recent open water swims 4000m in the sea, 1900m in St Polten, 2000m in lake in Switzerland, my Strokes per minute are 60 - 66 which is in the middle of the Swim Smooth sweet spot for a 1:40 pace. The exception was St Polten where I was higher, but DPS was down, I think that this is why I didn’t feel that I was getting into a rhythm
In the 50m pool, my SPM is 10% lower, and DPS is higher, probably due to push off
Dont worry too much about what swimsmooth say. they have their charts and things but its not to be taken for gospel.
With stroke rate by upping it too quickly you will just slip water, and take more strokes per length negating the increase. It needs to be a work in progress. ITs taken 6 months to take one athlete i coach from 60 - 72 regularly. Its also made huge difference to his times. Hes gone from 15 strokes per length to about 17 or 18 now but is quicker, especially in OW. Obviously also its not one size fiots all. Women tend to have higher stroke rates to compensate for a lower DPS. Also the body composition of fast / slow twitch fibres will have an effect, but key takeaway is there are only 2 ways to get faster, improve DPs or improve SR without too much or any damage to the other. If you are comfortable 17 SPL then its time to work that SR up. If you are 20+ still work on the DPS.
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Bang on for me I think. Time for a tempo trainer.
It’s a shame there isn’t an app to get the Apple Watch to buzz regular intervals, I did find one out it stopped when the screen went dark or if you launched another app.
Had my first swim lesson today, very interesting or very reassuring actually. This was being eyeballed, no fancy cameras etc.
Position, catch, pull all okay, but I need to work on rotation as I’m still pretty flat. So lots of side kicking type drills for me.
Afterwards I put it all together without fins and was interested to note I was dramatically down from 21-23 SPL to 14-15 albeit it with a lot more kicking, but the speed of an RPE8 length but maybe an RPE of only 6.
I’ll see how that goes over the next month, but quite pleased I guess to have something fairly straightforward to work on.
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Wasn’t sure where to put this but this seemed the best place. At the pool the other day and was just planning on doing some easy/steady 400m. I’d left my pull buoy at home so just used paddles for the first time without a pull buoy and found that if my kick was off time it was quite difficult to pull. Subsequently I have found that when I concentrate and getting this timing right (without paddles) I am a bit quicker for no extra effort.
I also spent a bit of time getting a stroke rate baseline for steady pace and CSS, so something else to work on over the winter.
I’ve never really understood what a correct kick pattern should be. I find that at times, I feel very unbalanced if it feels out of synch with my body roll.
I always coach 6 beat in the pool but i do have one junior that swims an effective 2 beat so haven’t changed it. 6 beat is 3 kicks per arm pull. I always point to Solar Energies swim waltz video. I actually took it to a BTF course and its now doing the rounds of the UK 
If only he was still around to know hes inspired some of the best coaches in the country!
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I use a 2 beat kick and came to that by chance. I was previously doing a 4 beat kick that was really two little flutter kicks on each arm pull, then one day while doing a long set session at masters I found myself doing 2 beat and much prefer it. I find with a 6 beat kick my arm cadence goes out of sync and I just flail away. It probably is a timing issue and have managed to find better timing for a 2 beat kick, with that kick and pull feeling like one, synchronised movement (when I get it right) rather than arms and legs doing pulling and kicking.
@Hammerer I love that video. Solar Energies contribution on TT 1.0 was fabulous. The 100m v 1500m thread was gold, probably should re-read that actually. It’s shame he doesn’t come back on here, I’d a attend a Solar swim clinic.
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