(that last “your” was accidental but I think I’m going to leave it hanging)
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Generally, most people’s easy runs aren’t easy enough and their hard runs aren’t hard enough.
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On that easy pace, 5:15 - 5:20. To give you some perspective, thats my easy pace and I’m targeting a sub 3 marathon and ran a 36:30 10k recently. So almost definitely FAR to fast for what you’re currently or have been doing.
Training consistency is very important and depending on distance I also really rate knocking out at least a 20km weekly long run as well.
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I was running with a good friend of mine on Wednesday, we were discussing how I got so fast at running.
When you break it down, there is no real secret. I run with a HR under 140, which is below 75% of my MHR, at 4:20-4:25/km. As long as I don’t screw up my nutrition on the bike, running an IM marathon at 75% of MHR shouldn’t be a big deal.
The question is how did I get my slow running so fast? These are my thoughts
- I got a treadmil, this is something I resisted for years. Treadmil has 3 big advantages, firstly the impact is lower, so I can do more mileage with fewer injuries. Secondly it is so easy to manage a constant pace, finally, it is convenient, if I have an hour free, I can just jump onto the treadmil and run 12km
- Shoes, I run all the time in my Vaporflys, I find that I recover much faster
- Trail running, trail running is slow, it involves lots of walking, you have to keep HR low. Up hills and down hills develop different muscle groups. There is no way that I could run 7 hours on the road, but a 7 hour trail run is great fun and it helps build a massive base. About once every couple of months, rather than doing a long ride, I do a long run instead
- Hills, doing a 200-300m climb, with a gradient around 6% has really helped me. I run slowly and really focus in beathing and efficiency
- Intervals, I am not 100% convinced about this but the book says that it is important. From October to May I do a weekly track session. Fortunately our tri team has a running coach. We have a program to push up Lactate Threshold Rate. At the start of the season, the coach explains the science behind it, and at every session he spends 5 mins to outline the objectives and why we are doing the session
3 years ago, when I first started to focus on running, my pace at 75% was 5:30/km, I am now at 4:20/km. My weight is roughly the same, so the improvement is down to fitness and technique. I made big gains in the first year, then got stuck for a year, then made massive gains this year when I started trail running
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HR looks a bit odd? It’s starting at ~180 during the first few ‘easy’ kms and then reduces very gradually, but takes over 7km to go below 170.
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Yeah I think that’s probably picking up his stride cadence not HR, my garmin 235 tends to do the same thing
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So i’ve been thinking about how i can contribute to this post. I played footy for 20+ years, then slowly moved into tri, culminating in me quitting the foosball in 2012 to focus on IM Wales in 2013. A big, big jump for me.
After that i joined a running club to try to move my running up a level, for the sake of my tris. But as with @ykk i quickly found how much flippin easier it was to fit in just running. So my triathlon journey dipped in and out over then next few years. The odd sprint, half IM in 2015, then pretty much nothing until last year. So during that time i was firstly a road runner - from 2013 to about 2016/17 - and then transitioned to mainly a trail and ultra runner. Now i’m a bit of everything again.
Biggest improvement came from joining running club. Running twice a week with people that knew their stuff and pushed me meant big jumps in my performance. Built my races and mileage over the years. Nothing unique, just lots of steady running, track sessions in the summer and hill stuff in the winter.
I improved year on year for a couple of years, and then as expected started to plateau a tad. But that probably aligned with my shift in focus as well. I experimented with tradtional running and crazy slow, but crazy high mileage systems.
But all in all, i’d say my experience pretty much aligns exactly with @Matthew_Spooner other than the treadmill. I don’t have one, and don’t like them. But i feel as i’m a little more mature now, if i had the space i could probably get into it quite easily as a time efficient training aid. But that’s not gonna happen!
I would definitely not drop the cross training. I reckon i’m about 90-95% of my previous peak condition at the moment, and i’m running an average of 31km a week this year, with no higher than 52km in a week. That’s crazy low compared to my peers that are in the same ballpark timewise. I think, a bit like @Poet. i have an in built capacity to quickly jump up to that 90% mark, but then pushing my 100% fitness results further would require big, big commitments. That i am unable to meet at the mo. Years of base, long, slow, stupid, hilly runs with my mates over the last 4 years have built this incredible base that allows me to jump from nothing to a 30 miler without risk of injury (on the trails).
But, road running is hard on the body. I have increased mine again this year and i deffo feel it. I’ve been careful, and the new Nike Tempo whatsits have deffo helped. Purely road running, will be tough. I agree with everyone else’s assessment of x-training.
Run off road, run hills. Again, when i went sub 3 in Manchester in 2015 (i think) i had very low mileage compared to my running club mates. But i had something like 5 x more elevation than them on our annual Strava stats. My mate has a tri club/coaching business in West Wales. On the back of their kit it says ‘Hills Make You Strong’. 100% agree. Doesn’t have to be hill reps etc, but just including some elevation into almost every run will pay dividends. But do mix it up with proper hilly stuff as well if you can. Echoing Matt again there, but it will build strength and resilience in your legs.
Not sure if that’s any help, but it’s a bit of a reflection of my situation. I also know a good few 50+ guys that came into running later that are PBing year after year.
So yes, go full run focus but don’t go 100% run would be my advice. Mix it up. Get on the trails. Get on the hills. Slow = slow. Real slow. If you can build the mileage up safely to a very high level, you can also get away without much speedwork. Well it works for some people anyway.
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380m short that year, too 
But thanks for the shout.
I’m getting old now, so will see what happens Saturday at parkrun.
My last run was 18th September.
Last exercise was 19th September 
Three weeks off 
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I used a session from the GTN marathon plan for a recent 30k run
10km easy
8km at MP+30-40s/km
6km at MP+10s/km
4km at MP+5s/km
2km easy
I based my pace off a faster MP compared to what I will hit in reality so I probably ended up running the 6k jut over MP, and 4k just under.
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I know!! Which is why i don’t have an ‘official’ sub 3 on record! Part of the reason i said i’d pace my mate next month. Thought it’s just a crappy charity one, so probably isn’t officially ratified etc anyway! haha.
2.52 was my time, guess a 2.53/4 in reality as i struggled massively with cramps in the last few kms.
Lots of great stuff here. Yes, during my purple patch I was running consistently high mileage for 2 and a bit years. My long runs were hilly as hell. As soon as the mileage dropped off so did my performances.
For me the determining factor however was the long run.
Like @gingerbongo points out - more weary of running on the roads now so will need to get off road more frequently.
Interestingly I remember being in the shoe shop way back when and the guy helping, a good runner himself said - some guys just don’t thrive on shorter, more speed work etc. They need to bash out 80mile/100 mile weeks. There’s no one route
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I think one important difference is that anyone who is running 2:40’s is an efficient runner, you can’t run that pace and be inefficient, your VO2max would need to be off the charts, so all these anecdotes suffer from the bias that we’re only watching what happens to efficient runners (as well of course of the survivor bias of all the other 40minute 10km runners who tried to increase their volume and got injured)
Some running inefficiencies can’t be trained out - if you have heavy lower leg with short unspringy achilles, no amount of training is going to help (although you might see a bigger gain from certain shoes than others with the springy achilles) Others can, but no amount of runnig volume can help with some.
I want the anecdote of the 50 minute 10km runner becoming the 3 hour marathon runner (without weight loss), as I think that’s going to be a lot more relevant to us inefficient runners compared to the 40 minute becoming 2:40.
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I have arrived at the same 10K time off the back of track training when 10K constituted a long run, and marathon training when speedwork was limited to more tempo type efforts.
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I am always so confused with the “chat” - I can run parkrun within 30seconds of my PB, and chat the whole way round, I do, I thank every marshall, encourage everyone I’m lapping or running against on out and back, ask for people to get out of the way, and that’s obviously at close to my max, faster than my 10km pace certainly. But then people will still say my “regular runs” are too fast - yet I’m absolutely meeting the “chat” requirements.
I think it’s because the advice has come from “runners” - it’s not about those of us with more O2 delivery than our running capabilities could ever utilise - and the “power/pace curve” limitations are more complex than the paces ever illustrate (and marathon pace + 30/km really seems to be a dumb way of describing paces when someone might have a 3:30/km marathon pace and another 6:00/km. )
The Scandy talk test (as I call it) isn’t being able to talk briefly but hold a conversation without difficulty. If you have to pause to take a breath then yhat doesn’t pass th talk test.
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That’s a good point. Racking my brain, have been in the same running club for 20 years & don’t think I have ever seen that.
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I have to do that in normal conversation?
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I do the same but that’s just the odd word or two. Could you string a number of sentences together near max HR?
I can’t elicit anywhere near max HR running 5km pace so I don’t think it matters? Obviously I can’t at max HR, but running the only way to get close to it will be intermittent reps on incomplete recovery.
The MarathonTalk guys (or was it Joe Beer’s SMARTcast?) Had it as running a mile with your mouth taped shut. Haven’t tried it but it sure illustrated the point.
I don’t think I breath much, I’ve always thought this. I had a personal trainer yelling at me to breath for a few months but I don’t think it made any difference. I’d still get dizzy/pale spells in the gym, something I never see with tri training thankfully. So breathing stays easy at least until I have to change - then I think it’s pretty sharp transition from a breath every 8 paces to every 4.
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