Yes @stenard is bang on with this.
I’d forgotten about the start in Wales and think I prefer it to the wall of marshals arms raised stopping you from entering method. The only thing with it is probably seeding yourself a bit faster as a lot of people pushed past getting through the funnel.
Although saying that, I still prefer a mass start.
Ive not experienced any pushing. People break into a run once they’re under the gantry/timing mat and sprint into the water but it’s not frenetic at all. (at least at the 1.20 mark, where I stand.
IIRC it takes about 8mins for me to hit the water from when the first Agers go off.
I think IMUK was the same as what has been described for Wales, not a formal TT start but more like a major run - you queue up and then all gradually walk through the pen, over the mat and into the water. I think it works excellently and is the best method for the swim, but of course there are concerns for the overall race.
AG mass starts would solve the issue of KQ being a race gun to the finish, and likely be safe enough allowing a couple hundred people off at once, especially as those who were weaker swimmers and not trying to KQ would naturally wait 30s like in any other mass start.
However this for me would be a lot more unacceptable than current format. I don’t want faster swimmers to have to overtake slower swimmers who set off before (for the sake of both parties), and agree with @Matthew_Spooner about potential problems on the bike overtaking/aid stations.
At least with a current rolling start the vague premise of the overall 2000 people race is maintained, because there is only a 20 minute gap in start times from first to last starters, rather than being several hours required for formal AG starts like Nice.
Final point for now, I do agree with @Hammerer and wish there was a better way. A separate “elite” wave currently feels like the best way like Outlaw, although it’s extra time and logistics for those involved likely needing to create a separate swim course/make the organisers day already longer.
However, although I think the post was fully well intentioned I dislike the language of fun-run etc. I’m glad to see hammerer has already replied to @Grobbo good post and clarified he’d include himself in that category of non-elite, rather than meaning it as introducing electric bikes, Pull buoys, tow floats, fancy dress 
. Its one thing IM diluting the event for safety, its another to deliberately try and make more people finish. There’s negativity around a “stereotype IMJ’er” wanting to be carried to the finish to collect their medal when the reality is they’re very rare. The majority of people, even including first-timers, I think see themselves as part of a race, even if they’re not trying to win and that should be continued.
Indeed. When I attempted IMUK, (07) while I ended up in an ambulance half way ish, I was able to get myself to the finish line for the last hour or so. Had the time of my life blowing my whistle etc and forming part of the canopy for the final man. Made my day as much as not being last out of the swim or getting onto the second bike lap (just I give you), before I made the mistake of stopping at a feed station for a moment, worrying a roving paramedic.
It was fun, I really enjoyed the day. So what I didn’t finish. I challenged a 20.5 stone body and did better than those behind me. Still remember the cold water shock though…bbbbrrrrrr.
I raced, mainly against myself and my obesity. I got further than many others, I had fun. Cracking day.
Have any non-sea swim races been mass start? I’m having trouble imagining any river based IM being able to do it at all.
Mmm, this is the problem with any age group wave start and as is, conflicts with gun time racing.
Age groups may actually be more a cause of the problem than the start type.
If you had say separate routes for the first 1km of the swim and released AGs (self seeded within their pens) at the same time…you should avoid the majority of the problem of volume and swimovers.
Idealistic maybe, but better to understand the ideal solution and refine to a practical, than never establish it.
Yes they all were including IMUK
Literally every Ironman event ever 
How did they get 2,000 people into a canal mass start, I think Austria and Texas have like a tiny gantry in dont they?
If it meant taking minutes to get over the start line then it wasn’t giving the gun time race we’re seeking to achieve on this thread
Nope…like 2 minutes into this innit:
If you’re a fast swimmer, you get to the front.
If you’re a confident swimmer, you get in the middle.
If not, then go at the back.
If you’re quick, but not confident, then you go at the furthest side away from the swim buoy. You will swim further, but will have that “space”
Being a confident open water swimmer and not having a breakdown over being drowned is one skill a triathlete should have.
However, when I did the Outlaw again in 2019, it certainly felt a lot more aggressive than my previous one back in 2012.
London World Champs in 2013 was insane and I had a little panic whilst being swam over.
If you’re running 4 hours for a marathon, you don’t go line up in the first three rows.
It’s the same with IM mass starts. You sort of funnel into the swim channel after about 500m.
Keep in mind, 500m is swam in under 6 minutes for the top folks, 7.5 minutes for the FOP, then >10mins for the BOP.
In real life, when you see what 90 seconds looks like, it’s massive.
Roth has wave starts by age group I think? It’s a canal.
Which is a beach start🤣
Clearly not what I’m asking about
…you literally asked about Austria.
That’s Austria.
They do the mass start by making people start in the lake (Worthersee) and swim 1.8km ish, before going down the canal for the final 1km.
That is literally how they do it.
(Also, to be a Poindexter, Roth is Challenge. Not Ironman. #JustSaying)
Inaugural Texas was 2011 and (IIRC) was pretty much berated for the mass swim start and the “lake” not being wide enough.
FFWD to 2013 and the “SwimSmart” initiative begins in NA. (The one where you can hold onto a kayak to get your breath back etc)
Texas has had a pretty bad run - storms, shortened courses, incorrect courses, races stopped midway through etc etc
Just wanted to highlight my upvote for this. This ultimately sums up how I feel it should be, and hence I would prefer mass starts.
But if you guys are telling me with your experience it is too much aggro and biff to feel safe then I accept that. I agree there is some expectation that you should learn to be comfortable swimming next to people and having the occasional accidental contact, but never to the extent of feeling punched or unsafe.
it’s no longer a mass start at Austria either, you are released about 4 at a time from the beach and run in to the water just the same as Italy.
The Lakesman was a mass start last year, albeit the ‘mass’ was just under 300 people I think. Unfortunately my goggles broke as I was about to get in and after running to transition to get my spare’s, as I got back to the water the gun went off…so I kind of missed out.
The only problem I’ve had in a mass start was at hyde park in 2009. Rather than start us in front of pontoon they started 200+ behind it and had a 90 degree turn after 50m. It was carnage and I got hit coming up to breath 3 or 4 times consecutive so got no air and drank water into lungs. I rolled onto back but got swim over by those behind. I’m confident though and was fine but the kayak was there in seconds. That was one of the only things that seemed to work that whole day 
awful race (T1 exit was 2 max side by side for 200m and a guy shoved a paratri and I over the barriers, the bike course was carnage with proper speed bumps (those small but high rubber ones) and idiots everywhere , oh and the run was 5 laps around a busy park field with kids on bikes , football all sorts going on. )