Yeah, I saw that 
To counter my own argument, when I did London Worlds in 2013, I was swam over, had a little panic and it was āraceā over for me
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Hyde park was awful. In the 2011 Olympic Test Event it wasnt too bad but you had 180 degree turn after about 200m which was carnage also. I just sprinted off the start to get there as quick as possible , although it ruined the rest of my swim 
The other thing of course is people who are good in the swim but less so on the bike and spend most of the race getting overtaken.
A friend from our running club is doing Wales this year, depending on how much effort she puts into the swim sheād be capable of breaking an hour, but I think sheās using a road bike, and although sheās not a bad cyclist she knows sheāll spend a lot of time going backwards.
Having said that, if she saves something for the run sheāll start moving up again.
Jeff
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I was going to post about this. Everyone is getting rapped up about swim seeding when the swim time has the least outcome on overall time. Iām a mop swimmer but finished 9th in AG at Wales. I was held up quite a lot on the bike through the twisty roads, the bike pace of some of the quicker swimmers was rediculously slow and I think far more dangerous to have such high closing speeds in the braking zones than having to swim past folk in the water.
As a result Iām motivated to start as near to the front as possible in the swim regardless of my swim time.
I would fully support a KQ wave behind the pros that you need to qualify for.
Of course I need to improve my swim, thatās a WIP.
That looks ace!
The people at the back, to the left, couldnāt give a 
- theyāre still standing around chatting two minutes after the start 
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That looks like a looong swim for some of them at the back!
Amen brother. I know the feeling well.
Yep, and when I did it in 2018, it took bloody ages to get everyone off and racingā¦ and the self seeding was a jokeā¦ I was in the 3rd of 4 pens, and was swimming past folk from pen 1 by half way, and I only swam 1:19, so not what youād call speedy.
Saying all of that, it is still a superb raceā¦ the lake is just fabulousā¦ crystal clear, perfect temp, aqua blue water for stunning pics, and with mountain peaks to make sighting really easy!
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IM is a money making business. The idea that the race (or the concern of individual competitors) is in any way important is to miss the point.
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The only true answer. The sport is screwed when its run by a PEC and not a governing body, not that governing bodies have exactly been beacons of hope in other sports ā¦ahem uciā¦fifaā¦ioc ahemā¦
The canal section in Austria is only the last 800m or so; so people are pretty strung out even in a mass start.
Roth has always been wave starts in the canal apart from 1994 when they used the Rothsee lake. Trouble with the Rothsee was mist in the mornings, so they canned that idea.
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TBH with the ānewā Lanza course and your biking ability, I reckon youāll pass most of the slow guys on the climb up the donkey track at the beginning 
The Lanza course isnāt kind to weaker cyclists.
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Yes, and with only 2 mins between waves, Matt shouldnāt have too many people to ride throughā¦ as long as he doesnāt do 1:18 again 
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Mass swim starts definitely further benefits better swimmers. Not sure i have any desire to go back to situations like IM-Mallorca where they stuck 2500 odd xAGās into the water at once, where my watch was lost in first 50m and then I spent next 35mins doggy paddling and getting constantly kicked and punched, before eventually finding enough space to actually swim. Small waves and rolling starts, make the overall race fairer as it becomes more of a straight out time trial (stronger swimmers still get a tactical advantage as theyāre up the road first).
From a strategic point of view the swim is already hugely important, ie get out of T1 quickly and youāre onto an non-congested bike with mostly only strong riders around. Slower out of T1 and youāre battling through traffic and slowing/surging past slower riders who donāt know how to go round corners (donāt get me started on the average IMārs bike handling skills). Being a weaker biker and/or runner doesnāt give you this disadvantage. (In case you havenāt guessed Iām a shite swimmer with a good bike/run 
)
Is the lack of mano e mano, Ironwar-esque AG battles for the line, really a big issue? Even if it was, not one I can see corporate IM giving a toss about. Iāve never won my AG, but my Mrs has and standing at the finish staring at the tracking app to make sure none of the girls behind her would pip her was properly exciting.
One thing I have seen which seemed to improve this ā AG racingā element was when Iāve done IMās in Australia, where they give everyone a tattoo to wear on their calf which signifies your AG, that way you can see if someone ahead is in your AG and decide if you want to āraceā after them. Gap in this system is that the wearing of these tattoos is not mandatory, but if some kind of AG identifier was I could see the benefits in terms of promoting racing for those fighting for AG position.
My biggest issues with āsanitisingā is the fact there are so few tough/honest courses out there. All new races are relatively flat, i believe in big part to cater for the IMJ/Bucket listers. Unfortunately I think IM want more Barcaās and Italys, where they know they will get 3000+ entries than Lanzas (though Wales selling out is a good thing). Potentially related to this is the prevalence of drafting (did i mention Barca already?), if the objective really is to promote fair racing then real efforts need to be made to stamp this out ie more spaced out starts, more refs, stricter penalties and less congested, more āhonestā bike courses.
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Now youāre talking!!!
I donāt know how long Iāve been saying this, but for someone else to say it reinforces the theory I have.
Iād not taken into account that the mass start benefits the better swimmers. By that, do you mean sub hour? Or even better/slower?
Really good post. I am similar to you, weaker swimmer and good cyclist. I need whatever advantage I can get on the swim
At Elsinore 70.3 I ended up pulling a drafting pack of around 30-40 riders: as I passed people who swam better than me they latched onto my wheel and the pack just grew.
In the 70.3 world I was surprised by the poor bike handling. I probably got the worst of it as my wave went last, around 2hrs after the first wave, so I was passing the weaker cyclists from the waves ahead.
I guess that the right thing to do is not to complain, and improve my swim (couldnāt face swim this morning, cold, wet and windy, so went on turbo instead)
The real probelm is there are too many people of too many differing abilities on small congested courses, especially when you have laps. Itāll never suit everyone, someone will always feel hard done by. As has been mentioned a few times, the owners of IM donāt give a sh!t as long as the Ā£Ā£Ā£ keep rolling in!
I personally agree with @Hammerer POV. Iāve only done one, and that was a mass start at Wales, and i loved it. Iām not a fast swimmer (1.10), but iām confident in the sea, and i absolutely loved that feeling of a mass start. If i just rolled into the sea 4 at a time, i donāt think i wouldāve had that same adrenaline buzz. It wouldnāt have compared to turning after the first buoy, looking back over the famous cliffs and seeing hundreds of heads and arms churning up the sea in the sunrise. I think IM are indeed making it āeasierā as those bucket listers are going to keep on rolling through. The more that finish, the more likely they are to talk to their friends to āgo do oneā at some point. Itās also (maybe being a little stereotypical here) that type of competitor that is much more likely to have to do an IM branded race.
Iāll go back one day and do one/some more. And i would be more than happy for the proper racers to have their own start and for me to follow after. That way it caters for everyone. If youāre less confident in the swi, then hang back. Again, itās been noted a number of times but one of the biggest issues is SELF SEEDING!! Itās the same regardless of the sport. I sometimes do a local 5km series where i know the majority of the front runners from local clubs etc. Itās got a really tight start to the race, yet the amount of times (and itās nearly always the persistent offenders) i see >20 min runners lining up at the start with the sub 15, 16, 17 lot ā¦ itās baffling, dangerous and annoying!
Here ends my semi-legible opinion (i didnāt get much sleep last night ā¦ thanks for that toddler kid)
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Ironman New Zealand still has a mass start
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