I agree with this as a sentiment, but in truth, i’m more interested in a consistent testing regime, and if my tested ‘FTP’ is increasing (regardless of whether its my genuine FTP), then i’m improving etc.
As long as my FTP in TrainingPeaks is in the right ball park, and thus i’m getting a sensible TSS, and that’ll do me.
Hell yeah!! Look forward to that.
I’ll have to look for a reasonable 25m loop (though i’ll be way over the hour) to use as a benchmark for/if i ever get outside. It’ll be hard to find something flatish where i won’t be at too much risk of being knocked over by idoits flying along the country roads though! I guess, as with tests, as long as it’s repeatable, then the actual time over the course doesn’t matter.
Fully agree, which is why I was so surpised and skeptical when I got my recent FTP.
I think that the style of Zwift racing and time trials I have trained my technique and physiology to sustain a really big effort for 20 minutes
I’ve not done a ramp test for a long while, however, I suspect that it would show an even higher FTP… Great for willy waving, but no real use for informed training
I’m doing the later one. Still can’t work out where it ends, if it’s 16.1km from the start gates it should end just before the right turn for the bridge over the river.
‘FTP’ discussions have always been clouded by people taking the simplified, laymans approximation as the actual measure or rule. Technically your FTP may be unsustainable for an hour, or you may be able to hold it for 65 minutes. I prefer just using fixed time measures to see if my training is having the desired effect, and because I don’t have access to lactate testing! Having one test protocol giving favourable results compared to another just suggests that your training leading up to that point was more suited to that style of effort. If you’ve neglected longer steady state efforts around threshold (or CP60) in place of shorter vo2 efforts then it’s unlikely you’ll be able to back up results from a ramp test over an hour
Can’t be flat round your way either!
True, but I have a suspicion that a lot of people are going to come out of this lock down with an inflated expectation of their FTP. If you have an increase in 20m power from getting specific at that from lots of short races then even in Training Peaks that has got to have an artificial effect as that is the data TP will be evaluating on.
Later use of that FTP as a metric to calculate half or full pace and you could be in trouble.
There’s been a number of these discussions recently. The above is an oversimplification. 60mins is not the only time duration that matters. The largest part of the FTP definition is the steady state nature of physiology whilst operating at that level, and how things differ fractionally above it and below it.
Depending on your goals, someone going for an hour record may well have their FTP dialled in for a 60min effort. Others may not. Doesn’t change the steady state nature of where their threshold lies, and what their FTP is.
As I’ve mentioned recently before, this is the exact reason I understand WKO has a TTE metric associated with an individual athletes FTP. In simple terms, I have always loosely understood the relationship as effectively “growing into your FTP” as the FTP itself increases.
As for testing, as has been said, the gold standard is clearly a performance at steady state threshold for a prolonged period. But that is so physiologically draininng, and hard to execute, it’s almost inevitable that approximation metholdologies have had to be developed in order to facilitate meaningful, recurring testing.
As mentioned, we’re getting into discussions that have been had quite a few times across various threads on here recently. Maybe we need a new thread to consolidate, given it’s coming up quite regularly? I’ve certainly stated before that simply picking “80% of my FTP” the week of a 70.3, having done a ramp test on the Monday is a pretty stupid way to approach pacing a HIM bike leg. But that doesnt mean the ramp test itself is meaningless.
How you pace a 70.3 is dependent on your sustainable 2-2.5 hour power, also factoring in your ability to run off that effort. Whilst your conceptual FTP might weigh into that pacing decision, it’s far from the only piece to the puzzle. As GB says for running, some people are great at short distances but it doesnt translate to longer stuff. It’s just like those conceptual best tables for running … doing a 16min 5k might suggest you should be capable of doing a 2:40 marathon, but just because you are trained for a 16 min 5k does not in any way mean you are trained for a 2:40 marathon.
But it does offer an insight into likely capabilities. Matt might not be able to do 60mins at the FTP zwift / training peaks suggests right now, but if he adapted his training to focus on an hour attempt, then the numbers he has hit over 20mins would, for the average person, mean he could probably get quite close to those numbers when suitably trained.
ETA - the structure of trainerroad plans are almost a prime example of “growing into your FTP”. If FTP was simply what you could hold for 60mins, then you should be able to do a 50min effort at sweetspot quite comfortably a couple of days after a ramp test. But most people would accept that’s not realistic. Instead, the trainerroad plans slowly get you more and more comfortable with prolonged durations above, at or just below your tested threshold. Intervals generally increase in length, or rest reduces. Over time, that tested FTP that has demonstrated your likely capabilities becomes more and more sustainable for longer and longer durations. Until you hit a point where, in all likelihood if you fully tapered, you could exceed that power duration for well over 60mins, at which point you test again, get a higher number, and repeat the process.
ETA2 - on the assessing your FTP accurately, I’ve always equated it to the heisenberg uncertainty principle. The more accurately you try and test your FTP by properly tapering and doing it as roughly an hour effort, the more you’ve actually undermined your training and performance gains in order to undertake that kind of test (you’ll have slightly detrained during taper, etc). Hence the various approximation methodologies, which, if you know their caveats, are more than good enough. The way trainerroad structure their training plans after a ramp test for example, demonstrates they are fully aware most people probably can’t go and bosh out an hour at that power level a few days later.
Sorry guys, but you’re falling into the trap with this chasing ‘stuff’ & routes.
LIVE FOR THE DAY! That’s why I just race innit 
But for some events you need the equipment in order to put yourself on an even keel with others when racing!
EVEN KEEL - THIS IS ZWIFT FFS! 
Don’t over think it 
When you get beat by clubmates on TT’s despite lower power and w/kg, because you’re on the the Zwift TT bike and they’re on a P5X with disc wheels, it’s somewhat motivating to get more drops and progress up the levels to open up that kit!
I personally don’t mind the gamification. It’s what makes it interesting for me. I still do my 2-3 structured trainerroad sessions each week, but outside of that, the motivation to undertake other rides are about the gaming side of zwift. That, and the volume of users, are why I decided to pay for zwift rather than just use the free premium version of RGT during this period, for example.
If it makes you happy, then absolutely go for it, but ultimately it’s just a computer game (that involves keeping fit or improving fitness).
For the avoidance of doubt, COD isn’t real war, GTA isn’t like being a real-life criminal…and those hot chicks that live only 2 miles away and are keen to meet-up… 
haha - but if it’s the difference between getting on the turbo or not bothering, or finishing at 20km, or pushng on to 25km, then it’s served its purpose to you personally.
Quite. So why are people worrying about only getting socks or mitts when they level up. It’s not the point. Focus on the beast you are becoming 
Might i refer you to your own post a little earlier from the hero that is White Goodman. That’s the only beast i’m becoming!
Another 12 bottles of wine arriving on the doorstep this evening! 
I like doing new routes, particularly in Watopia, as the scenery is so varied. I wonder if I’ll still be so enthused by non-racing zwift once I’ve explored everywhere.
When I first went on, I was really excited to do the ‘real world’ stuff, but actually Waopia’s been the revelation - always some detail to spot if you keep your head up.
Yes, I like Watopia the most. But as I’m generally only doing a w/u, race then c/d I actually don’t see all the sights. I only get limited time too, like an hour in the morning or evening. Wife complains about turbo noise from the garage even then (it’s attached to the house by the living room & you can hear it from our bedroom as well).
What do you have? I’m fairly lucky in that my gf is fine with me training whenever I want, and that’s in the hallway. In the same way I’m happy for her to occupy the living room whenever she wants for her virtual pilates classes, yoga, HIIT etc. Certainly helps having a quieter direct drive trainer though.