@JibberJim - If you want to start a row in an empty room, be my guest. 
Thatâs not what I said and I really hope you know that.
Read the book and then make your judgement, it really is that good.
Cheers, Paul. 
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OK, you are now editing quicker than I can type.
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I only added!
There is a book I have mentioned previously I am sure called The End of Overeating by David Kessler. In that he explains how food manufactures cynically design foods so that you keep eating them even if youâre not hungry. Pringles adverts even tell you they have done it. They donât make the tastiest version of the thing but the one people will consume the most and obviously go and by more of it.
On the exercise not helping, I thought the same as @Chriswim (no insults today 
) in that once someone has done some exercise they tended to move less outside of that. I would think it would take a fair bit of time to reduce BMR and that also would depend on body mass and composition changes.
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Everyone is different, everyone needs variations of energy to survive , it would have to be 20 clones in a room .
Impossible to check without a destructive test of that item in a lab , even 2 identical sized apples could have different amounts of sugars and calories depending on growing conditions
Would need strict controls on work output
You really dont need a controlled experiment to prove that
Its not true just âon some levelâ, its actual #sciencefact , laws of thermodynamics
Finally, and only because you cannot accurately measure in (and out isnt easy) hence as a nutrition coach you start at a point and through trial and error and behavioural changes get someone to make better choices which inevitably reduces CI. Measuring CI, even inaccurately, is a tool to use to get people to realise what is going in, many people easily forget that extra slice of cake. The biggest issue in obesity is psychological and thats where changes need to be made so they can get to CICO or to lose weieght CI < CO (but not by too much)
I again refer you all to The Facts Thread
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I think this is where exercise really helps. I understand what the studies say about exercise and its usefulness in the CO bit but thereâs more to it than that. Exercise can often make the person feel more positively about themselves and the choices theyâre making. This can help them make more positive choices in regards to their diet. This is purely anecdotal on my part though but not me personally.
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I see something, im sure i refered to this before, where they did MRIs and scans of brains after a diet of crap, and the neuro pathways were firing differently, signals going to different parts of the brain. It had basically reprogrammed people to crave more crap and turned off the âIm fullâ sensors. Im no scientist and couldnt begin to explain it all or how true it all was but it was fascinating
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Well that was interesting and, to my ear, mostly argued that CI=CO.
These are my take home notes (of views expressed on the podcast, donât shoot me):
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Sugar is not the demon. Fat is not the demon. Eating too much is the demon. It is easy to eat too many processed Kcal because they tend to be sweet, soft, pappy and taste nice.
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A calorie of Mars bar is the same as a calorie of celery, but itâs quite easy to stop eating celery.
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We tend to assume people have personal responsibility for what they eat. But actually, people generally eat the food that is presented to them (and that they can afford).
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The food environment is strongly linked to weight gain. Twin studies have shown this. Wild animals are not usually obese.
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People donât usually know how many kcal they eat in a day.
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They donât eat âthe Mediterranean dietâ in the Med any more, they eat processed food from factories like everyone else.
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Donât say Iâm overweight, say Iâm living with overweight. (I do try do this, even though it sometimes makes a little bit of sick come into the back of my throat.)
This view I canât agree with:
- âCalorie requirements are determined by your age, sex and body composition, and not by what you do.â This was Chris Van Tullekenâs view, but Iâm really sceptical. How can a scaffolder require less calories than a bus driver?. He says that a man needing 2500kcal per day, who takes exactly this, will not lose weight if he exercise. He says that if not exercising, he will burn the same calories on âanxiety, inflammation and elevated reproductive hormonesâ. Er, no. Not the 800, 900 1000+ some of us here do. Like JGav says it is clearly possible to expend more energy in exercise than your BMR, but your BMR is not going to become negative as a result. I wish the other guests had challenged him a bit more here.
And this one Iâm going to keep on file:
- The Boer war is not pronounced âBoa warâ, that was the war between strippers and drag acts.
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Harry HillâŚ" We could cure the obesity epidemic if we had narrower doors."
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I agree with you on point 8 but I do think a lot of people who arenât as awesome as we are on here, maybe donât burn that many calories exercising. Certainly not as many as they think they are.
I always thought it was pronounced the bore war???
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Being generous, I would say he was assuming a ânormalâ 30min walk/jog to elevate the hr, as recommended by the NHS, and not training for an IM. And he did say exercise had many benefits beyond calorie burn that help with balanced life in general which is the best way to control your eating.
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Theyâre going to have a hard time convincing me of that!
I do think there is a certain amount on genetics though. My wife says Iâm utterly blinkered and fooling myself when I wonder why other kids my Sonâs age (who are equally as in/active) are shovelling loads of crap in, and not as chubby as him.
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yes go to the gym, walk for 20 minutes on a treadmill and do 5 minutes on a couple of random machines, drink a Lucozade whilst doing it and have a bag of chips on the way home after âa good effortâ
or 8 lengths max heads up breaststroke in the slow lane chatting to a mate for 30minutes, or worse âwild swimmingâ for an hour and eating cake after. This isnt cutting it.
Iâm guessing he is over generalising which is the big problem in most debates these days
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Its cos they are LCHF carnivore diet, donât need to fuel for Ironman anymore as the body just fuels it magicallyâŚor something
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Iâll tell Sean next time I see him, thatâll be one less thing to worry about 
.
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Depending on age, I think the hormone imbalances through childhood and puberty are very much at play hence the term âpuppy fatâ
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This is what I was getting at above. For most of us, if we did a 30 min run/ride/swim at no more than moderate effort, we would probably regard it as an easy day. But for many that would be a solid bit of exercise but probably not many calories. It is still positive that theyâre doing it though. A lot of obese people over eat as part of their unhappiness/depression, not greed and I think exercise of whatever duration or itensity can help them break that cycle.
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Is there anything here about health and nutrients though. I just donât get the pure calorie obsession. Putting junk in isnât helping your inflammation, biome, immune system etc etc.
This type singularity could lead to people going âoh well, all cals are equal, and exercise is pointless. So Iâll just sit and eat my 2,500 worth via mars bars todayâ.
Bodies are an holistic system.
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Excellent 
Over the past few years Iâve noted a decline in the use of âanâ before a soft âhâ, such as âan historic eventâ
Thankyou.
Anyways, time for my morning pork pie 
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Precisely; there is always an agenda with these things. There will be a zealot behind this âresearchâ.
Iâm pretty sure if we all ate 2000 Kcals of just fruit/veg vs 2000 kcals of Nutella there would be a difference. To our bowels if nothing else.
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