Dissect my run form!

We have a lot of bike fit threads, well here’s a different slant on the same kind of thing.

@chickenboy made reference to my “little running legs” on another thread, and then this video pops into my inbox.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-help/events/blenheim-palace-bhf-champion?irwchannel=739&irwtoken=94dfbe8d601e61b48c48ebb87acdd017

I have to say, I’ve never known an event provide such good quality video for free before. They may have not had a podium, but this is quite interesting. It also shows my race progression. In the first clip, I’d just gone past 4th and was closing in on 3rd, and in the next one I’d moved into 3rd about a km beforehand.

But anyway, I know this is only a few clips, but for people who know their stuff, is there anything obvious in this footage that I could work on in my run form? As I imagine is the case with most people, I literally just run. This is probably the best footage I’ve ever seen of myself running at a reasonable pace, but not out and out sprinting (I’ve seen loads of footage of me from my American football days)

clearly an advantage over a top heavy lard arse like myself mate. not as little as Joe Spraggins legs though and that boy can run! run form looks good to me, but how is your glute strength and general core stability when doing strength workouts? Like me, your right knee (i think) tends to track inwards. couple of physios have told me its lack of the above with loss of pelvic stability.

actually i just looked again and now i’m not so sure, lol

That looks desolate!
Well done for running that time with no company

Similar request:

Main things to me:
Footstrike in the midline, which I should have thought about before given I also clip my ankles occasionally with other foot when I run. Likely due to glute medius weakness. Decent idea of how to improve this in the gym, but any running drills/pointers to actually improve it on the road?

Right elbow sticks out. Don’t know cause/impact/if needs correcting and how to go about this?

Anything else?

Interesting footage. Where did you get that from?!

I get this a bit too. And occasionally brush my knees together when I fatigue. Don’t often notice this so much, but the winter (and XC) always make it slightly more obvious with some mud marks on the inside of my legs where the other legs has brushed past on the way through.

Some recent physio on another issue also identified glute weakness. I have a couple of exercises to do. Lying on my side, knees bent, with a 10kg plate on the top leg. Lift to horizontal, and then keeping the hips vertical, bring the upper leg towards the chest (flexed) and then upper leg to a toe off type position (extended). Repeat on both sides. My left side is noticeably weaker than my right. Although I am now doing 2x15 reps each side after a run, whereas a week or two ago 1x10 reps fresh was a challenge.

I also have side bounds. So facing ahead, bounding to the left, absorbing the impact on my left leg to regain balance, then bound to the right leg, and repeat x20. After the 10kg plate exercises, that’s also a bit of a killer.

It’s difficult to see if your pelvis is dropping side to side or if that’s the effect of rotation moving those markers. The markers make it look like they’re dropping but it’s difficult to tell. You definitely have your feet very close together though.

tbf @Chriswim would be pretty great at following the shortest path blue line at the London Marathon #gainz

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One of a few good expo stands at Great South Run. More useful on the link as it plays continuously, whereas see the forum embeds it and stops after one play.

Any videos of the plate exercise?

stop running…

? [quote=“explorerJC, post:10, topic:910, full:true”]
stop running…
[/quote]

That offensive?

There is a lot going on there - which in truth will need more images from different angles - thus the advice is to stop running and fix the problems…

You’re being serious? You’re saying someone who KQ’d (but just declined his spot) should cease all running immediately because his form is that bad?

I don’t disagree that good form would be helpful (whatever you think about the Salazar/Mo thing, the before and after videos of his running form evolution are stark evidence for at least one reason why he got a lot faster), but to say to an amateur runner that they should just “stop” is rather extreme. Most things I’ve read say everyone is pretty unique and largely, people should just run.

e.g. “There is no right way to run, nor is there a wrong way to run”
Source: Reed Ferber, Ph.D., biomechanist, researcher, and director of the Running Injury Clinic at the University of Calgary

I’m scared to think what you might have said about my video!

the question was effectively - how do i fix my form? the answer is to stop running and re learn the movement patterns. Being a KQ is no indicator of form.

Mr Ferber may have a lot of qualifications, but he obviously knows very little about coaching running. Is his business not fixing broken people? That’s like producing a product that you know is going to break and need to be replaced.

Saying stop as a default position when 75 - 85% of runners are injured each year seems less extreme than telling them there is no right or wrong way to run and I will book you back in here in another 3 months…

i think you ignoring the cultural madness that suggests my position is extreme…

Thanks, I can see your point on learning basics before push further, and I’ve never had anyone see me run so accept could be awful form.

That said, while I don’t expect you to give away your livelihood for free online, would you be willing to point out something you suspect might be happening so I have something to take away and learn about/look out for on further video/get help with professionally.
Can’t re-learn the movement pattern without at least having a starting idea where my natural form is taking me wrong.

I fundamentally disagree. Humans have been running for millenia and it’s not killed them. Yes, people get injured, and yes, there might be a better way to run that is more preferable, but just telling 75-85% of runners to stop is just going to stop people running. I recall now your point on parkrun, and I disagree with that as well. So my bad for engaging on a topic that we are never going to see eye to eye on.

That said, I do entirely agree with Chris’ last comment above. A forum, by its nature, is a place for sharing things. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen you actually give someone advice, or point them in the right direction. Your blanket “stop running” response, with no contextual information that we are now beginning to drag out of you, is a prime example. For the benefits of the general forum user, that initial response was little more than trolling.

GB said something similar on another thread:

Your response seems to miss the point that people are on this forum, for the very fact they are not lazy. They are actively engaging in things they want to learn more about because they arent expert in those areas. The whole sharing of ideas is what makes a forum tick. Take @hammerer with his swimming guidance for example. I know a lot of people get a lot of benefit from that, and across the years, he has appeared to get some personal reward by people checking back in with their improvements as a result of his advice.

yes…i’ve heard Hammerer’s swimming advice :slight_smile:

Your response seems to miss the point that running is made up of multiple moving parts and that 75% of runners (or more) are injured every year. Random advice is of very little benefit because it misses the fundamental point that improving form requires (potentially) multiple changes. Altering one component of running is fraught with risk which is one of the reasons those changing form get injured regularly.

I am delighted that H gets personal reward from his community spirit…I will remind him of who one of his coach educators was… :slight_smile: But I won’t get personal reward from dolling out random and potentially harmful advice on a forum. if you could give running form away sentence by sentence then everyone would be doing it.

What i have done to those in need on this forum (although more on the older one), and am about to offer Chris, is that if he sends me some videos, i will take a look and offer some feedback…although this has to fit in with a busy work schedule…

I don’t do it online because it is fraught with risk and likely to be misunderstood by or not appropriate for others…

But if you arrange to send me some vids of you running - both sides, front and back (not on a treadmill) - i will take a look although I have 2 weeks + of bookings to get through…

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But why not just provide this kind of insight with your initial responses? When you put it like that you make a lot of sense about why piecemeal Internet advice is potentially harmful, but simply stating “stop running” just undermines your point.

Over the years I have inferred that your style is to try and guide people towards self enlightenment. And I get that in a coaching/teaching mindset. But often it comes across a lot more negative and effectively just being deliberately unhelpful.

I’m on @explorerJC side here which may surprise
you. Any swimming advice is based on some simple stuff you could do on your own, counting strokes, sprint, use swolf, but I can’t and dont give full technique guidence but that’s because its impossible online without very good footage. Even then not being there to explain or demo in real time means you wont even know if you are doing what I said. Swimming isn’t load bearing either and is unlikely to cause injury in the way running can so I’m not really risking long term health. As for the stop running comment, it sounds harsh but I’ve done the same in swimming. Told them to go back to basics, break them down and rebuild them with no distance or intensity so they learn new movement patterns. This is clearly even more important in running where most people spend a lot of time injured due to poor form.
As for coach educators, I have 100s, every athlete, every coach, every race I’ve done, I’ve learnt something from someone…but EJC is my favourite but only because he is a Hammer :wink:

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