Double days, hard

Looks like a Load around 100 or more correlates to what I’d regard as a hard session.

And the swims are all around 100, though I think I’m holding loads in reserve.

I’d say that when I’m “on it” I’m fluctuating +/-300, 1000 per week last season.

I’m only 700 now trending gently upwards…

EDIT

Doing the maths on that sample, I get to 1000 just with 3 bikes, 3 runs and 3 swims. Hmm..! That’s food for thought.

It’s a shame no one seems to use EPOC in planning/training material on triathlon.

Everyone that uses a Garmin and considers or takes any notice does.

I have mentioned and posted on this before.

Re: why is garmin telling me this… etc. Remember I posted a link to the white paper

100 per session depends on the session, your physiology and how effective your recovery.

1,000 per week could be the answer you’re not looking for…

I do feel like I had this conversation before, last year - can’t remember why I ended up not using Load for planning.

….I did a bunch of load analysis copying data out manually into Numbers and creating pivot tables….

Hmm…think I analysed three seasons limited by when I started using Garmin

Hold on

EDIT

Was here

But there’s no conclusion really, and we ended up focusing on TSS. I opens with a statement that my Load data didn’t always make sense, so maybe the recording was unreliable?

EDIT 2

Ah, found my post in The Other Place, it’s erroneous heart rate data points that blow Load numbers out, so you’d need to be vigilant in checking HR data and manually correcting somehow. Does seem like a hassle, given Garmin doesn’t allow any editing at all.

Maybe okay for estimating though.

@joex

Speaking of Garmin… have you got to Elite status yet. :wink: :winking_face_with_tongue:

After my 5th session with quality this week…

It is going to take 36-48 hours before the next hard/quality session. 5 in a week is my limit atm.

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Impressive.

I am stuck with a paupers’s watch, FR265, so I only have vo2

:sob:

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I thought you had one of the higher models for some reason.

Late to the party, but I took one look at that schedule and given your age/ability it’s a hard no.

That’s not meant to be offensive; I wouldn’t have lasted more than a week trying that in my 30s with a job/kids. My follow-up question would be: what are your goals?

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is that a double day, hard no???

it is possible…but will quickly highlight weaknesses in recovery, muscle resilience, possibly bone density, maybe stress working relations and perhaps domestic relationships too…

It’s unlikely to achieve any fitness goals…

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Thanks for your input :+1:

Is there an assumption about how hard the track and threshold run are to make you say that? The bikes are pretty much bread and butter for me.

What are my goals?

Understanding and implementing the principles of balancing multi sport training and recovery.

Because too much stimulus, not enough recovery?

I think I asked upthread, if you’re okay with scheduling a single hard bike session, what is the down side to scheduling two “75%” hard sessions, one bike, one run with say an 8hr recovery in between on the same day. Balance the overall load such that the athlete can handle it.

Or perhaps there’s a limiter in progressive overload?

75% of what?

Nothing wrong with two sessions 8 hours apart provided they are purposeful…indeed, you can do back to back bike and run sessions and i regularly schedule these….but it’s what you do next that counts…(and what you did before)….

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there probably is, and it will vary day to day…but there will be diminishing returns as fatigue sets in…

and, as you say, you only get fitter when your cat wakes you at 4am…

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Wouldn’t repeated 75% efforts fall into the ‘not hard enough to be hard and not easy enough to be easy’?

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possibly…but we’ve nt established what 75% is yet…

It was related to what I know about Joex, and what I thought his goals might be.

I’ve done double days loads during IM trg, but they weren’t hard…certainly not 2x hard sessions (AT sort of intensity). My double days tended to be commuting by bike (Z1/2) and swim intervals or run at lunchtime. Otherwise they were a brick session; I overtrained a few times pushing my IM brick runs too hard off a 100 mile ride. My best results actually came before GPS watches and I just did brick or long runs on PRE/HR.

I did a 30 hr week once at Playitas. I would certainly get bored doing that all year tbh.

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ditto…but that’s mainly an age thing for me as I pre-date much of the technology…

Some of my Zof bricks were very hard…but i was generally reasonably rested before…so they tended to be scheduled at the end of each mesocycle

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all this chat reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BaDYnpTA2Y

I’ve defined “Hard” upthread iirc anything around threshold and above. So it’s not the total stress, it’s the intensity, if you like. Of course it will vary by athlete, but I think everyone is experienced enough here to get the gist.

Eg A Hard session might be a forty minute threshold run or a twenty five minute threshold run. A forty minute endurance run would not. Again, I think we all are experienced enough to get the gist for this discussion?

Personally I don’t find sweet spot intervals on the bike to be Hard but others do. I guess if regard them as Moderate your “not hard enough to be hard and not easy enough to be easy”.

Have I made sense? Maybe got into a bit of a ramble.

Sweet spot is definitely above the Moderate domain. As I mentioned before, when the Norwegians talk of double threshold days they mean a little below LT2.

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