New bike Day?

Thanks for all the feedback – I’m still deep in my own debate about whether or not to pull the trigger on a new P3. The head is strong and says no but the heart is weak and … well…I’m rooting for the underdog
All the deliberating has got me thinking about sizing. I had this same issue back in 2017 when I got the P3 I’m currently riding. I was torn between a 54 and a 56 (the bike fit had me between and I could get the current position on either). Now I’m considering buying again I’m right back in the midst of indecision re: size.
I’ve got nothing else to do at the moment so I’ve been considering whether I can get a better position over winter. I rode a decent time in Barcelona but looking at the pics of me I think I could get a better position and I know my helmet isn’t doing me any favours.
For those of you (most of you) who know a lot more about aerodynamics than me… Any thoughts about the size I’m riding and the position? Would any of you suggest a 56 instead of this 54?
Also apologies for the screen grabs both in terms of image quality and also ethics. I’ll be buying these pics at the end of the year when they send the discount code :wink:

Should this be in Critique my position/bike/thighs?

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I am very happy riding both rim and disc brakes. Brakes do not define a bike, they are just one of the factors, and part of a complete system

Firstly disc brakes only make a significant difference in the wet, especially using carbon wheels, the steepness of the descent is much more of a factor than the length. One way to mittigate this is to have a set of wheels with an alloy track for racing in wet conditions (this also gives you the option to fit a more robust set of tyres to your wet weather rims). On my Cervelo I had a set of Prime Black Edition carbon wheels with a textured brake track, this was stunning in the wet, the wheels were 50% off from Wiggle and cost around £500.

In the dry on a big mountain descent, I am faster on a rim brake Cevelo R5 than i am on a Canyon Ultimate disc, the Cervelo feels more secure at speed than the Canyon. However, I am faster still on a Specilalized Tarmac SL6 Disc which is the most stable bike at speed I have ever ridden.

When I compare TT Bikes, my current P3X is faster than Specialized Shiv on descents; its base bars are much lower, and therefore significnatly more aero, and secondly the Cervelo is more stable than the Shiv, it has nothing to do with the brakes, on the flat the difference between the Shiv and P3X is so marginal that I couldn’t say that one bike was faster than the other. This is a factor worth considering, the Cervelo P3 is a great bike, however, is it as stable as a modern TT bike? One option worth considering is a recent TT bike like the P5 or a recent P3 with rim brakes, you may find that you are much more confident on the descents just due to bike geometry (A used TT bike with rim brakes will be at a bargain price)

My own experience with the Shiv and a Venge build my son did, is to consider the quality of the cables. Dura Ace Cables transformed the rear brakes on the Shiv and Venge. Also consider pads, I use Swiss Stop pads on rim brakes. They don’t last too long when riding in mountains, however, they are the best I have found, especially in the wet

Another consideration. A friend of mine, who is not a good descender, has cooked 3 rims. He descends riding the brakes the whole way down as a result gets massive heat build up in the wheels. On the other hand, I descend, braking relatively hard for the bends, but try to keep off the brakes as much as I can, and my rims only get warm to touch, even coming off massive mountains.

In terms of bike size, if I am between sizes, I always go small… you can always extend a smaller frame with longer stem, more spacers etc, but much more limited on a bigger frame.

Finally, if you go for a new rim brake bike, resale value will be significantly less than a DB bike, the question is whether this is offset by the lower initial outlay and not buying new wheels. If you expect to upgrade in the future, then it will most likely be a disc TT bike as rim brakes TT bikes will disappear, so ultimately you may be investing in new wheels at some point. Have you also considered upgrading the Hubs on your rim brake wheels to disc?

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Thanks for the thoughtful reply Matt. This was exactly the sort of ‘hidden angle’ I was hoping someone might point out and which I certainly hadn’t considered. Food for thought.

Now to post those pictures on the Critique my position/bike/thighs thread

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I’ve been considering this a little overnight

If I was spending £3000 - £4000 to upgrade a TT bike and the choice was between a New or nearly new Lower spec Disc brake bike or a couple of year old Rim brake bike with a higher spec, I would go with the rim brakes and higher spec. I know that not everyone would agree with me, but Di2 or Etap is more important than disc brakes, just being able change gear on the base bars is a significant advantage when climbing or descending

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That is not true for me.

I had di2 in 2010, my LBS”s wouldn’t touch it.

It’s great when it works but on a hilly course I would be faster with better brakes, tyres, position etc … your obviously a good descender, several of us aren’t.

Bolton 2019 I was breaking at the side of me a lady was peddling as hard as she could.

Ive improved slightly but it had nothing to with di2.

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Those are all good points. People use professional cyclists as evidence that DB are not required, what people don’t realise that DB are probably not a game changer on mountains, where descents are typically 7-8%, however, a short 18% descent, typical in Britain they do make more sense. IM wales and IM UK are probably not typical IM courses, and are also likely to be wet, so if that was the primary purpose of the buying the bike, then the arguement is stonger from disc brakes. On the other hand, I am not sure that disc brakes would make that much difference in Nice or Lanzarote, which are both very hilly, but the type of hills are different

My 2 fastest races are 70.3 Elsinore and IM Hamburg, both on the Shiv with rim brakes. One day I hope to do a fast couse on the P3X

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I’m sure that day will come, hopefully next year ( Covid willing ).

My best recent descending was in March in damp conditions, a 2up duathlon with a stronger biker than me, who is a very good descender, we placed well and I was made up.

The world went mad, only managed two races at the end of the season, one pretty crap, one pretty good.

I guess descending boils down to confidence, in your self and your equpt.

Some good points from yourself and stenard,they are appreciated , I have three tt bikes… being sensible I only need one…

See what the spring brings.

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I love bikes and a large number pass through my hands as I build and sell them on. I don’t lose money, but rarely make much profit either. I also tend to go against convention, and I hate the polarised view of disc vs non disc di2 vs mechanical etc.

My TT bike does have discs, however, my Gravel bike has cantilevers, my climbing bike (which obviously has to descend) has rim brakes. My Tarmac SL6 disc, is a really great bike, its fast, but not TT bike fast, it climbs well, but not as well as the Cervelo, It’s comfortable, but not as comfortable as the Canyon Ultimate, which it replaced, it’s a bike that makes an almost perfect set of trade offs, yet somehow lacks a defining character.

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I’d imagine the point in time you reference plays a part in this. You must have been very cutting edge, as original Dura Ace di2 was only released in 2009 according to wiki. The ultegra version didn’t come out until 2011. That first iteration was a lot more fiddly. I remember people had to go to a bike shop to have any diagnostics done, and not all bike shops had the required computer interface.

Nowadays it’s totally different. I have never once needed anything doing with my di2 by a bike shop. I’ve done any adaptation to parts, etc, myself. And the wireless units mean I don’t even need to hook up to a laptop anymore. But the main perk is you simply don’t have to change much at all, ever. I had to re-index my gfs new bike the other week as after using if for a while, the cables had understandably stretched a bit. I forgot that was something you needed to do!

And as Matt says, when I first got di2 on a TT bike, being able to shift in both positions was a revelation. I do think it makes you able to descend faster. Not because the brakes are any better, but because you can accelerate out of corners and get back up to speed easily, with your hands still on the basebar. On twisty switchbacks, that’s a big advantage. If you were having to reach to the extensions to change with mechanical, I could see it sometimes being very difficult to shift up and down optimally during a descent. On a flat dual carriageway TT, then I’d agree that di2 offers very little.

EDIT - and the other thing … travelling with the bike. Di2 makes that so so much easier. You can literally just unplug everything and pack and wrap it all separately. Before I got my new roadie, travelling to the Etape last year was surprisingly more fiddly having to keep the rear mech broadly attached as I couldn’t just unplug it and take it entirely off. I honestly don’t think I could get my TT bike in my bike box if I couldn’t just unplug the extensions, take the whole lot off the base bar (risers, clamps, arm rests, extensions) and pack elsewhere in the box. The lid wouldn’t shut if I had to keep everything connected due to the cables.

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I bought a brand new argon e114 at the very start of 2010… the seller was an ex tour mechanic getting into selling bikes and components.

He offered me dura ace di2 10 speed that had been used by a trade team in 2009, it had to be mounted externally as frames hadn’t been adapted at that time.

Yep my local bike shop… said they would have a go, the other declined… I ended up taking it two hours away to have it fitted.

To this day it was still the best bike I’ve ever had… but not for descending … the brakes were pants.

I remember doing kilo2 go… a big sportive and lots of cyclists looking at the new electronic groupset.

It’s two a penny these days, I’ve developed a descending strategy … brake less… I virtually never pedal downhill … i get the base bar di2 comment, but it’s wasted on me, I stay in one gear till the flat so there’s less faff.

Poet and pcp will be familiar with the famous cattle grid on sheephouse … I went over it with a hr of 98 bpm, my mate was 165… I use downhills as a rest, especially in longer races.

Gearing downhill really wouldn’t matter to me, I’m looking at a single ring tt bike for next year, 46 / 48 teeth would be plenty, with a 11/27 rear

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If I ever raced abroad I would pay a bike transfer company.

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I have 5… all modified and I want to keep them all…

They all have there uses, I want another one though… I’m running out of garage…

Strangely the Argon e116 with old school di2 is the fastest flat and hilly, yet it’s the bike I “ like” the least!

Is it an S-Works?
That is surprising.

The half dozen people I know with one song their praises.

Great downhill that!
I couldn’t see what all the fuss was about?

Can’t wait for Firefighters in March :boom::women_with_bunny_ears:

I think I need to adopt a mindset more along these lines.
I’ve had relatively few bikes in my time given the amount of time I’ve been doing this. I tend to approach finding a bike as I did finding a wife – thinking and hoping it’ll be forever rather than accepting that bikes aren’t like wives and you can play around a bit more.
As regard the Di2 question I did have Di2 on my road bike back in 2015 but happily went back to mechanical after the Di2 bike got written off and I couldn’t immediately get hold of replacement with Di2. I’ve never really missed it.
However, I’d never go back to mechanical on my tri bike. The P3 I’ve been banging on about so much was chosen with the Magura brakes in mind. I wanted stopping power and this was before disc brakes had become a thing in the world of Tri bikes. I had my mechanic cut the Di2 buttons off my Shimano brake levers and epoxy them to the Magura brakes. He made a good job of it and I love ‘em. I do a lot of hilly courses and being able to shift from the horns is absolutely non negotiable for me these days.

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Me neither, but you ll be going uphill at the cattle grid in March…

Unless they change it.

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Yes it’s an S-Works, genuine Bora Hans-grohe team bike, it was one of Patrik Conrad’s spare bikes.

Don’t get me wrong, it a a fabulous bike, and undoubtedly the best handling, and probably fastest all round bike I have ever owned. However, it lacks a defining characteristic, it just does everything well

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There are certainly some bikes I regret selling, and some bike that I will hang onto for a long while.

When it really comes down to it, 95% of the difference in speed is down to the rider, the bike accounts for a small difference. A £1000 TT bike will be faster than the fastest, most expensive road bike

Di2 on a road bike I can take or leave, it’s nice, and pretty much maintenance free, but the shifting quality on mechanical is now truely excellent. TT bike is a different story, I wouldn’t consider a TT bike without Di2 or Etap, Potentially I would consider a 1x setup, but at the moment I love my 55/42 and 12-25 cassette as chainline is ideal and gaps between gears are nice and tight

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Odd…I’ve heard the defining characteristic is stiffness, which “feels” as though that translates to speed - two of the owners had the top-spec Canyon before getting the S-Works.

Anyhow, nice to hear a different opinion for a change.

As a side, stiffness is proven not to relate to speed, not when teated anyhow.

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