As opposed to buying benefits that suited some and not others?
I realise there are downsides to the EU, and they are aplenty.
But I still believe that it doesnāt change the fact that Brexit was mis-sold. The Leave campaigns were āsigning cheques their egos couldnāt cashā.
12 Likes
If only the debate had been a balanced one where those benefits were rationally discussed instead of a largely one sided onslaught against vague ephemeral concepts and beliefs by a partisan press and a vocal minority of right wing MPs who were shown again and again to be completely willing to lie through their back teeth on the basis that what was said and widely reported had an big impact on public opinion as the rebuttals didnāt get any significant press coverage.
Reality checkā¦ for most observant people, it was quite obvious that the benefits being declared and voted for were being heavily manipulated. You can deny that all you like, but any rational analysis backs it up.
Even now, you are insinuating instead of offering any substantive argument (as usual, instead of directly taking a clear position) that observations that things blatantly arenāt as easy as they used to be are wrongā¦. I listed just a few examples of policy where the research, rules and enforcement were/are developed as cross EU initiatives, along with substantive research across the EU, that we now have to do independently instead of sharing the load with 26 other countries (and we DO have to do it, or we have zero chance of supplying the EU market)ā¦. or we follow the EU rules with little or no say.
9 Likes
Lets be honest, the politicians werent, but the entire campaign of both sides was soundbites and scaremongering about how life was over if the other team won. It was shameful and part of the reason Brexit won.
Itās the same now, people picking up on bad parts of Brexit but ignoring things that have improved. Im not getting into either but it was never going to be Utopia, whatever way we went, Covid didnt help the transition either. Its happened though, we need to get on with it.
Whatās improved?
5 Likes
What Iāve noticed is that everything is seen through the prism of Brexit: remainers talking up every setback they can possibly pin on Brexit, leavers denying anything has been disappointing.
The main perception issue is the project fear approach talked up apocalyptic scenarios to try and stop Brexit; therefore anything quite bad can be seized on as ānot as bad as remainers saidā and therefore OK.
3 Likes
absolutelyā¦but whenever sensible people did try to discuss concerns they were labelled as racist or xenophobicā¦the press was noisy on both sides, you only choose to point out oneā¦
Sensible people listened to Ernest Bevin, Herbert Morrison, Clement Attlee, Hugh Gaitskill, Tony Benn, Harold Wilson, Michael Foot, Nigel Spearingā¦ those bāstard minority of left wingers who saw this comingā¦
Nope, i guess you are right thereā¦
iāve never denied it, i thought that aspect of the leave campaign was shockingā¦
Iāve given my argument for voting leaveā¦and gave my reasons for not particularly wanting toā¦but very few chose to discuss, most called me racist and a xenophobeā¦many just shouted inarticulate responsesā¦
my position is crystal clearā¦but i leave you to join the dots and have no intention of spoon feedingā¦if you ask a coherent question i will attempt to provide a coherent answerā¦
yepā¦but it was the āevery single darned area of lifeā that was worrying and āpreviously managed and supported by the EUā that was perplexingā¦
i am happy that we can be selective with that as long as the process is transparent and accessibleā¦
2 Likes
we donāt have to contribute to the $114m pa spent on moving offices every month, pretend itās a good idea and look the other way when we claim to be interested in the environmentā¦
1 Like
The best roll of of Covid vaccine in the developed world meaning we could get back to some type of normal far quicker, potentially saving a lot of lives. Is that enough. What about our ability to react and help Ukraine far quicker than the EU sitting there debating it for weeks
1 Like
All things we could have done within the EU.
So how come Germany and France failed to respond quickly to Ukraine if the EU didnt stop that? how come half of Europe struggled to get any vaccines to administer due to EU regulations whilst we had already dealt out 1 if not 2 to most of the vulnerable adult population?
Lets go on shall we, What about not being responsible for the 750billion debt the EU racked up in their Covid response, money we can spend internally on our own issues? More money going into the NHS now?
Its not as bad as people make out, most of the issues now have been caused by Covid and Russia, and would have occurred ether way. Yes there are teething issues over customs checks, and borders but all will be ironed out in time, nothing on this scale will be plain sailing.
I wasnāt a big Brexit supporter but Iām certainly not against it, and democracy is worth far more than any overturning because of people stamping their feet and screaming and shouting. There are people out there that actually want the country to fall apart and relishing in any issues just so they can say āI told you soā. Shameful, we are all in this and its about getting on with it, it wont change and if it did it will never be like before as the EU will fck us right over if there was ever a request to rejoin.
2 Likes
I canāt be arsed to look up evidence to convince you youāve been lied to but the UK is a sovereign state, despite what Mogg sold you, we have full control over out millitary and what medicines we buy, approve and use. All things we had control of while members of the EU.
This is the type of response that Iāve come to expect.
I can look the other stuff up in a bitā¦
Exactly this.
I voted Remain because who likes change, āeh?
But, weāve left, so time to pull your socks up and get on with it.
Look at the general picture in most other EU countries.
Is it any better than here? Probably not.
Is it any worse? Again, probably not.
So whatās the issue 
Also, hereās one on Labour spouting utter tripe, yet again;
1 Like
āWith no second UN resolution forthcoming, the UK, along with Spain, Poland, Italy, and the Netherlands, committed troops to the invasion of Iraq. The war thus proceeded without the second UN resolution desired by the UK and with the open opposition of France and Germany.ā
We went to war with Iraq, without EU approval. Weāre independent.
Iraq, yes remind me who was in power when we entered an illegal war? This isnt about an invasion anyway, unless you know something I donāt we havenāt gone to war with Russia. Itās about supporting Ukraine and the EU dragged their heals over that.
Your replies also beg the question, for someone so keen on the EU you also seem pretty keen on ignoring what they say if we were still a member? Isnt this part of the problem leading to Brexit, we wanted our cake and to eat it
Ermā¦ nope.
Buy maybe, because we were quick off the marks, we saved more livesā¦. ermā¦ nopeā¦
There really arenāt many metrics that show the UK in a good light if you dig behind the PR
Thatās missing the number of Karenās per 100 population.
I bet the UK has higher number of Karenās per 100 population than Malta. In fact, Iād state that as a #ScienceFact
- Karen gets all of her medical advice from Janeās increasingly paranoid Facebook posts. Or QAnon. āCos yāknow. Chemtrails.
6 Likes
As of May 12th 2022, what about this time last year? They have caught up now, but yer statistics 
And what has death rate got to do with us saving lives because we rolled the vaccine out quickly?