but that’s more expensive than actual chamois cream, can I just eat Assos chamois cream and get the same benefit?
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FYI my Mrs is a doctor and is a big proponent of 16/8 intermittent fasting both for weight control and for diabetes control. I tend to defer to her and the research she reads/does. However, how it fits with sports performance is a bit of a mystery to me.
that was the actually reason for the thread but this is far better 
TinPot has already tried half of it
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I’d love to know more about that, I did a nutrition coaching course a year ago, its pretty much about behaviour and lifestyle change rather than certain “diet” choices , diet agnostic as long as its doing no real harm but I’m not sure I get the science behind fasting a set number of hours and times. I can see why people argue Keto, paleo, vegan etc which all basically end up with people cutting refined carbs, and putting less energy into their systems hence why they work. I suppose this does that another way but the science behind the why is intriguing
There’s a few mechanism (and I don’t understand everything behind it).
It essentially plays with the CICO equation slightly differently to just cutting calories which is what many diets try to do.
Studies have shown that massively increasing or decreasing calorie intake doesn’t result in the ‘expected’ weight gain loss because the body compensates. There is a supposed link between insulin resistance/ insulin spikes and weight control and the hormones are part of the control mechanisms for the equilibrium. Fasting for longer periods each day is a method of reducing insulin spikes and reversing insulin resistance.
The other key point it that hunger is a hormonal response not necessarily an actual bodily need. The fasts help to control the hormones which cause hunger and so you naturally eat less.
The idea behind IF is you eat your normal daily calorie intake in a shorter window. Of course this means in the eating window, you’re less likely to overeat and snack because you’ll be less hungry. Fundamentally any diet is the one you can stick to. Delaying breakfast until maybe 10 am and finishing eating by 7pm is pretty easy to do. It stops me adding alcohol calories late evening too which is a bonus for both sleep and weight.
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I think from what I have seen, and I haven’t looked at any scientific literature but 16/8 and similar, such as 5:2 fasting where 5 days eating normally and 2 days of very low calories seem to have health benefits. I guess I have never bothered looking at it as weight isn’t an issue, I don’t eat much refined carbs (compared to what I see around me at work) and eat home prepared food. I think keeping any refined carbs for around or during exercise is the best way forward.
The benefits of glycogen depleted exercise is that your mitochondria become more efficient due to changes in and increase concetration of enzymes. This is obviously especially useful for prolonged events
A general question. Regarding training sessions, how do you define ‘fasted’ and ‘glycogen depleted’. My question was prompted by your post above.
I suspect that not everyone defines it in the same way.
For me it’s go to bed, get up and go training without taking on anything other than water. Also means much less chance of a mid run 
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What do you class that as, just ‘fasted’ or glycogen depleted too?
I class it as going for a run before breakfast 
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Glycogen depleted by exercise. So you might do your evening ride/run with some intensity or duration creating some fatigue but doesn’t have to be a mammoth session. Afterwards don’t take in carbohydrate, obviously a bit of sugar in milk as part of a protein shake or simialr is fine. The next morning, without taking in any carbs go and do an interval session or 2-3 hour ride (e.g.). Or simply, as I think @Matthew_Spooner suggested on another thread, do a 4-5 hour ride without carbs before or during, the first 2-3 hours deplete the glycogen the last 2 hrs is where the good bit happens. But it can take a couple of days to get over it properly so you don’t want to plan any real iintensity in there. Or morning intervals on the bike/run to deplete, no carbs during the day, lunch or evening run/ride.
Morning sessions can be fasted but not necessarily glycogen depleted. Being fasted means it is easier to deplete the glycogen but whether you do or not depends on the session duration/intensity .
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Our old forum buddy Brett Sutton sets glycogen depleted, so proper breakfast, hard session, very little fuelling then an easy hour in the later afternoon so training on empty.
Fasted is glycogen depleted but i always just assume thats before breakfast
How would you recover after a session like that? Standard meal or are you still on reduced carbs?
After the second session or long session without carbs you would want a standard meal to then replenish your muscle glycogen stores.
ETA: I understand why these tyes of things work. How to blend them into a program that works is where you want @explorerJC’s and @Hammerer’s input.
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So…when I swim at 0715 or turbo before breakfast, is that fasted???
My 5pm run, having no food since 1pm, is that glycogen depleted?
FTFY
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What?!?!
Where do I fit a pork pie into that day???
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but I’ll add that fasted is glycogen depleted because you have run the reserves low overnight (you use more energy sleeping than sitting watching TV)
Not sure if there is a definition of fasted but I would say it is beause you haven’t eaten for hours. It makes depleting your muscle glycogen easier as your blood glycogen levels are low.
What @Hammerer said, only if you haven’t had carbs since your morning ride or swim.
The fridge
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