?
You know they were taking EPO/ test/ etc.
Did you grass them up?
How did they do?!? I know someone who experimented with it 15? Years ago out of competition and did t go any faster.
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Really? Iād be surprised if it was commonplace, or maybe Iām being naive. Itās literally just a hobby. Are people so desperate for podium kudos that they risk their health with doping?
Scott is a good example where we could point a finger at his outstanding results. But I see what he does in training, heās retired and has the means for physio, osteo, nutritional support. Heās more fortunate than most of us, but even if I were in his shoes, I couldnāt commit to his training load
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Youād probably beat him in a race though, because youād have his shoes 
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moved to lounge
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Iām not retired, but I get this completely. I commit a massive amount of time to training (except swmming). Some people look at 50+ YO athletes close to the top of their AG and are quick to pass judgement. @chickenboy I think that you still fall into the category of outstanding performance as well
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Thanks mate, back at yer. But I canāt run off like you you fellas. Still a frustrating work in process. But thatās what makes it fun and challenging right?
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I rode 5.32 in Kona 2019. You are in another stratosphere to me on the bike - those conditions of 2019 and you will ride close enough to 5.00.
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I went 5 hrs flat on a pretty standard Kona weather day back in 2015. I think weāre pretty similar on the bike so Iād be surprised if youāre not closer to 5hrs than 5hrs 30. There is a lot of wind and a lot of heat but the roads are buttery smooth and the amount of people on the course is always going to provide some benefit even for those of us doing what we can to avoid the massive packs.
Not sure what itāll be like this year but when I did it it was pretty congested coming out of town but once up on the Queen K it spread out significantly and packs/ drafting werenāt an issue at all after the turnaround. I had a vey slow swim (my slowest ever - 1.15 if I remember) so I spent the whole of the bike ride flying through the field which certainly helped me avoid the worst of the drafting issues.
Really looking forward to watching and tracking this year
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Does BBS account for usual Kona conditions? Ie number of people on course with inevitable some drafting.
2 day event will reduce that this year at least
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@Matthew_Spooner and @Chriswim - Matt I know youāll have Kona on your mind at the moment but are either of you still in the sub 9 game?
I might have just committed the cardinal sin of entering a race when Iām in the midst of the post ironman blues 
Iām already down to do Bolton next year as I had a deferral from last year when I postponed it in order to do St George instead. Then I might have just gone and entered Copenhagen 2023 which is about 6-7 weeks later.
Plan will be to train through Bolton and treat that as more of a training day and to put all of my eggs in the Copenhagen basket.
Can I do sub 9? Not really sure but Iām more interested in the trying than the succeeding. I did 9.05 back in 2019 but that was in Barcelona so comes with an asterix. Copenhagen seems to be the best possibility for me of coming close to 9 without an asterix.
After this years excertions I need a bit of time exercising rather than training but once I get back into things Iām going to need to to commit to swimming. Iām normally a 1.05 guy and If I canāt get the swim near to or under the hour then the whole sub 9 thing is probably off the cards for me. Iāll also need to be confident of running a 3.10 IM marathon when (on a flat course) Iām normally a 3.18 kind of guy. If my legs will tolerate it Iāll need to try and get myself into sub 2.45 shape for a spring open marathon regardless of whether or not I actually run a marathon at that pace.
My wife has been desperate to go to Copenhagen for years, itās in the school holidays so we can take the kids so from that point of view it was an easy sell.
@chickenboy you seem to have Copenhagen as a firm fixture every year, you going to be there in 2023?. Either way, hope you donāt mind if I start picking your brains over the next 10 months about race logistics etc.
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Zero evidence, just a thought experiment, but it may be more common 50+ as becomes muddied with people thinking theyāre taking testosterone for honest reasons to treat the āmanopauseā. Legal prescriptions encouraged by doctors justified as preserving bone health etc.
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Yeah but then they shouldnāt be racing, to me thatās no different than justifying an e-bike.
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Thereās a good chance Iāll get myself back in the game and commit to IM NZ for March 2023, but got a few competing interests/demands.
Plus this fortnight Iām feeling bit sorry for myself. Have spent the last 2 months doing what you suggest - unstructured exercise and a lot more gym. Tried to work on my running to make some speed gains and ran myself into another injury - swim history is lovely but comes with a physical fragility to running!!
Not a chance I could do the volume and competition schedule many others manage.
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Didnāt American athletes get prescribed testosterone with a TUE type deal, rock up at Kona and take al the AG slots.
Pretty sure they stopped this some time ago?
If your in the top % of the population that could actually do a fast full, you really donāt need test at allā¦ ever.
I know some people site sexual reasons but the people who are competitive in 50-55 ( getting faster it seems) but canāt raise a sticky on?!
Come on?! Iām not sure if you and fruit loop see people directly but I would tell them in no uncertain terms to duck off.
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Iāll see after Kona. With luck i will do transcontinental race, the issue is that this is likely to end 2 weeks before Copenhagen so that isnt realistic. I have an itch to do Wales, however, i may hold my nose and do Barcelona or Italy for a sub 9 attempt
Iām not sure itās that easy to say or flatly compare to an e-bike.
Speaking in general terms rather than the current example there is always a balance of inclusiveness and fairness, as the recent female transgender debates have shown.
As such we have a TUE system to try and allow genuine medical issues to be accounted for, or donāt ban every single drug that has a potential performance enhancing benefit or weād be saying people could never even take paracetamol etc.
Now with that philosophy bringing it back to the testosterone example, I donāt think people should be able to seek benefit, or ādopeā, and itās an example where the lines are being greyed. Itās also a bit of a soft reason to take testosterone even generally and not something Iāve got my feelings round medically regardless of sport.
But I can acknowledge how it becomes easier for people to justify to themselves or that others may have different views. Same way I can acknowledge elite athletes often have very good reasons why they succumbed to doing something that with a clearer head they would have said was wrong. I donāt ever agree with those reasons, but you can see how theyāre human and succumbed to pressure/temptation etc.
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It is probably a gross generalisation, but I get the impression that the American healthcare system in particular has generated a culture where ageing is seen as an illness that can be treated, and steroids and HGH are legitimate medicines to ātreatā an ageing person.
Given that background, I can understand how an amateur athlete can justify to themselves taking PEDs because it has been normalised, and it is no different to what their non-athletic friends are doing. They are then shocked when they find out it is illegal in competition.
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Lol @Mungo2 do you fancy a job 
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100%
Cheating is cheating !
Stone em!
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