For me, yes. Low HR then transition in tempo and intervals in later.
I haven’t yet decided on the plan for 2022 so still open.
2 Likes
How about 2 years later, ‘only’ running a 4 hour marathon. I had a quick glance last night and that looks the equiv of a 50 min 10k? I had been running for 2 1/2 years by then.
My main question was about someone who didn’t have high running economy and we know anyone who is running 2:45 must as it’s not possible to have a low VO2max and achieve that you cannot get your running economy high enough. It’s not really about the people who run aroiund slowly a lot for years (I ran for 4 years with a running club and stuff at a lower weight than I am now and a 5km PB of 24 minutes, I maybe run that slow a few times a year now) it’s about the people who do not have high running economy, and get down to 3 hours - 3 hours being pretty much the limit I’d say of the low running economy folk.
I got a 945 LTE as my 4.5 year old 935 had become very unreliable. The 945LTE has totally new internals, even though it has very similar functionality to regular 945. However, for me the best bit is the new optical HRM; the optical HRM seems to be really accurate, I don’t even bother with the chest strap for running. In challenge Roth, I didn’t use a chest strap.
1 Like
I have one now, coincidentally so I’m okay - I got an HRM Dual primarily for Rouvy and Zwift racing. A bit like power meter I think people can be overly concerned with the accuracy over the consistency/reliability of HR data. The one exception being max HR data point, which does need to be accurate if you are using it for basing your training on and zoning purposes.
So if you have low running economy, what are the factors you need to have high to get to the 3hr mark, vo2max? Muscular endurance?
Also, would running economy not increase with consistent training?
One of the biggest benefits for me of getting a treadmil a year ago is focus on running economy. I play games to see how low I can get my HR at a fixed speed on the tredmil, by changing cadence + stride length, by slightly altering foot strike by pushing off differently, it is really interesting how much difference I can make, this has certainly helped improve my running efficiency
2 Likes
Is that a good measure of running economy, cadence, stride length, HR? I understand that the formal measure is oxygen consumption and pace which is obviously a bit trickier at home 
I’ve dabbled with HR last year on the treadmill, don’t think I did anything more than aim for 180ish on cadence. I was looking for a pace for the “aerobic 10k” thread where my upper limit was 148.
10kph 144 6:00
10.4kph 148 5:46
10.8kph 152 5:33
10kph 149 6:00
9.2kph 144 6:31
Not sure it says much other than how far off I am at the moment, I assume I’m just not recovered from the Ironman and marathon. 151 for 6:17/min on Tuesday. My treadmill and outdoor running matches up so I’m fairly confident I should be below 150 for 6min kms.
2 Likes
no offence (Joex), science alone won,t make you a better runner
but running will
3 Likes
HR is a pretty good indicator of Oxygen consumption, more oxygen muscles need, higher HR to get it to them
Cadence is not an indicator of running efficiency. I found that there is an advantage not to run at a fixed cadence. for example, running at 4:45 @ 130bpm @ 180spm, if I drop to 172spm, my HR for the next km might drop to 127bpm, but then climb back to 130, if I now increase my cadence to 180spm, my HR drops to 127bpm for the next km, before climbing back up.
I have not read any research about this, however, my hypothesis is that by changing cadence you use muscles in a slightly different way, which allows for some recovery. When running IRL, I find that this technique is effective to eliminate HR drift… If I run at the same cadence and pace for 15km, I will see a small amount of HR drift, even at low intensity
2 Likes
How does your effort to run at a fixed cadence correlate with your ultra running ambitions? Unless your running on very groomed trails, fixed cadence can’t be achieved in an ultra easily.
1 Like
That’s one of the things I love about Ultras. when you get onto a nice surface where you can run a stretch at a fixed cadence, it feels so easy. The other time on an ultra where it is helpful to run at a steady cadence is the long 8-12% slopes, where you just get into a rythm and subconsiously adjust stride length to accound for gradient changes
2 Likes
Walk!
5 Likes
This mimics something a running coach used to say to me. If you are struggling to hold the pace, rather than slow down, speed up. Sometimes the change in stride is what is needed to refresh and reset a little. Also why undulating courses can be easier than pan flat.
1 Like
Only the trainable parts, you cannot change the length and springiness of the achilles, you cannot change the weight and length of the lower leg etc. These things simply aren’t trainable, others would of course, although some of them mostly by training at the veolocities you want to optimise for. There are so many components that go towards lowering O2 use per km that it’s not as simple as saying “do X improves your economy” it’s like anything in that it depends why you have low economy and that isn’t easy to identify.
1 Like
Your trails must be very different to ours! The only time I can imagine holding a steady cadence is on a road transfer section. Of course Thames Path might be different.
I find rocks, single track and your feet being at very different angles to each other, all conspire to make any kind of cadence very sporadic.
But then, I’m not not very good at it, so there is that. 
1 Like
I am running when I’m not posting, I assure you 
I’ll be 5/5 if tonight’s run goes ahead. Easy and short stuff.
When I start using the treadmill I might do both at the same time if I can get voice control working, then there’s no escape from me…
2 Likes
Following you on this as I will steadily increase run volume in the next two months.
What’s 5/5?
5 runs out of 5 days, Mon-Fri. Will have a break from running tomorrow, have an equally an easy bike instead probably.
I have kind of leapt back into it but It’s all short and aerobic though; 31mins, 54mins, 36mins, 24mins, plus tonight will get me just over 3hrs which is near my pre-race average. It’s not structured yet I’m just staying within myself, lifting is my quality work until Christmas although I am starting to wane on that I want to stick with it.
1 Like
Unless you are @Doka 
7 Likes