I have very little sense of suffering (except for swimming). I think that it is my greatest strength, I enjoy the point in a race when all around are suffering, because I know I can suffer more. I suspect @Mathew_Pritchard is similar, running to the point that he passed out, shows that he was pushing right to the limit (beyond his limit). I remember reading a study that showed most people think they are at the limit, when in reality they are just at 70%
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Isn’t that Central Governor Theory?
Joining this thread.
You can to a certain degree “train” yourself to suffer.
Part of the reason I was able to finish Frankfurt was the memory of doing a 21 mile training run before work, despite it hurting from the first step.
Whether you do intervals or whether you do a long sufferfest is up for debate.
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Hi guys
Long travel journey and got home at 3 am.
@Matthew_Spooner yeh I certainly do have the ability to go way too far!! I ended up on a drip at the end of Copenhagen too but that day managed to cross the line with a sub 9:50. What does piss me off is that physiologically my hr was low and also feeding etc was stable. When I’ve had my best results and been at the front of races and able to get the best out of myself I’m similar to you in that when you’re firing it’s just about knuckling down and really out suffering people, last Sunday was about survival which was a bit strange.
I started feeling a bit throaty in the night after the race and a bit more yesterday afternoon but put it down to just the effects of the race then got the chills last night.
Then this when I arrived home:
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My niece is a dr and tells me it’s likely if I had mild symptom yesterday I likely picked it up on Thursday on my way out
I did feel short of breath when in the med tent but put that down to a bit of panic
Anyway time to really rest up now and get well. Rolling Stones next Saturday in Hyde park is now my main focus to hopefully be well and clear for 
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Hope you feel better soon, would certainly impact you. @Chriswim had it looks n his race as well
Definitely a risk this year so keeping away from people is going to be a challenge
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Thank God it’s not just me!
I know Alistair Brownlee is a bit sniffy about Central Governor theory since it didn’t stop him pushing himself so hard that he lost consciousness.
I know that I can push harder when the finish line is in site (but that might be logical, because you don’t have to keep it up) and I’ve watching plenty of Marines on the telly who are adamant that it all comes down to mental strength - but maybe they mean endurance, rather than when you heart rate is over 85%
You’re like my mate! And Chris Froome, apparently. I wonder why some people are like you and others are like me…
This is really interesting, because I’m very keen on training well within my comfort zone - which might explain why I’m improving, but not at a dramatic rate.
I know that if I feel miserable during training I’m less likely to do it again. For me, suffering and misery are closely entwined. Maybe it’s how we interpret the discomfort.
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I would say my coach sets it so I do at least 80 percent easy under Lt1 probably more like 85-90 but then the hard stuff is really hard. Hard enough so that if the other training was aero is and endurance building I wouldn’t be able to achieve and most importantly recover from it.
I also love the easy stuff, my favourite session is a 1.5-2 hour run keeping hr under 130 on the back roads here in wales
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I’m the same with the low HR stuff - love my long runs in the Peak District.
I think I need to do more hard sessions though - at the moment it’s just swimming that’s really puffing me out. Maybe some short, sharp hill work will be enough - HIIT that is over quickly!
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I’m not the person to really advise on that tbh but I’m sure there are a huge amount of people on here who would be good to give advice
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That’s a great example of how 80/20 is supposed to work. 80% enjoyable/ easy /recovery endurance building and 20% very hard. Not just out of breath, but hard enough to require the 80% easy part.
I guess that’s the advantage of have a coach. Helps organise the sessions.
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I have never done 20% of my “training” very hard, I’ve never even done it hard, indeed I don’t think I do more than a few minutes a week hard and none very hard (from ~10 hours a week) I think we may have very different definitions of what hard means here, I don’t have goals, I purely do exercise that is enjoyable.
So what’s very hard?
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I’m only saying what the official line is. I’m similar in that I don’t strictly follow a plan. I just do what I fancy.
When I do do hard intervals ( turbo for example ) I try to push as hard as I can. So a 2 minute interval on the bike would leave me in some discomfort and not far off maximum HR.
I maybe only do that kind of session once a week, and the rest of the time its steady away.
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I need to do more of this. I’m slightly stuck in limbo between exercising for physical & mental health, and a long term ambition of completing an Ironman. At the moment I’m only doing about 5 hours a week worth of <75% HR training, which I know isn’t enough.
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@JibberJim , you’re clearly one of these psycho cyclists that feel no pain.
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The fundamental reason for all elites doing the majority of their training at relatively low intensities is glycogen resynthesis. Because you cannot exercise at high intensities on fat, you have to have good glycogen stores (and supplemental calories ingested but the limits on that when exercising hard are high too), but that takes time. So the only solution for the athlete who wants to train beyond their maximum “hard” training level is to train more at lower intensities, they simply cannot train any more at high intensities.
The ratio comes from the training limits, not from any magic ratio that leads to adaptations.
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Just seen your first post and all the replies, nothing I’d disagree with.
I’ve highlighted this post because I think there’s more than just the physiological suffering element to consider - some of us are built differently from a mental perspective. I can only give my own perspective on this but back in the 2005-2010 period there were a few debates on this very topic.
So, when have I really buried myself? Not very often because I find it really unpleasant and hence the outcome really has to matter, which it largely doesn’t (to me).
The example that comes to mind was racing the very first Helvellyn triathlon; getting up the Struggle without putting a foot down was my primary aim - I managed it but the final 100m or so was like being in a dark tunnel with my field of vision getting narrower and narrower. I got over the top and the rest of my race was somewhat underwhelming.
The next year (2005), a car forced me onto the steepest part of the final bend (over the small bridge) and I immediately went into the red but this time got off and walked - and then had a tremendous run having managed myself better overall.
So, for me, going to the limit is pretty much a no-no because the cost is higher than the value - and largely, it might mean the difference of one place vs pretty much the same overall finishing time.
I don’t even recognise the idea of burying myself over hours and hours.
I put this down to the fact that I’m really an ‘explorer’ rather than a ‘racer’ - I too (before injury stopped me) used to love long runs in the Peak and elsewhere and always felt I needed to have something in reserve in case of emergency (getting lost etc). Some of this may come from a background of hiking in remote places or rock climbing to a high standard where energy conservation is often key to success. I suspect part of the reason why I was a good rock climber is more down to it’s requirements aligning with my own physiology and psychology. I then took that ‘profile’ into long distance running and multi-sport.
I guess it meant that I was doing hard sessions to improve but not really to explore the outer limits of my capability!
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That’s a really helpful post, thank you.
I think you’ve put your finger on it: at the moment I have no incentive to go beyond ‘quite hard’ on the effort scale. In the past when I’ve been pushing for a park run personal best to I’ve tried harder particularly if it looked like I had a chance of achieving it. But as you say, most of the time there’s no real pay-off for suffering.
My friend, who I mentioned in my initial post, is the opposite. He actively enjoys pushing his limits. He calls it ‘feeding the rat’.
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