Nike Zoom Fly/Vaporfly 4 and NEXT% - The Thread

I watched the aerial video last night to get an idea of the lake and run - looks like a nice traffic jam of cars waiting to get in early doors!

Yes, last time I did the 113 I got there what I thought was ā€œearlyā€ and had to rush to make the start because of the traffic issues. It was better by the Classic though.

That was 2017, and from memory the lake car park had new owners, so I think there were teething problems with the new solution. If I recall correctly, parking was in an adjacent field by the Classic. Not sure what the deal is now, but I’d certainly not aim to cut it fine with respect to arrival time

Get your best ā€œON YOUR RIGHTā€ voice on for all those narrow twisty trail bits under the trees where the slower runners will be on your third lap, all walking 5 abreast blocking the whole path!!

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We parked up our camper van in the field right next to the start as we registered the evening before. We didn’t bother moving it … nobody kicked us out. :wink:

Right so i’m still umming and ahhing about these shoes after my parkrun effort, so time for some ā€˜science’. By science i mean try some more runs and see if that helps in the slightest!

Had a stupid idea last night to try a hard 10k tt today down on the river with my mate riding a bike to keep me company. He wasn’t pacing me (as my splits below show how flippin terrible i ran! haha) but i would deffo have given up had he not been there.

The shoes are horrible to run slow in. But that’s not what they are for. I do however completely forget about them when i am up to speed. I was skeptical of the fit over 5km, but with the 10k run, they were no worse. First box ticked.

Maybe stating the obvoius, but amongst all the hyperbole, they do not simply speed you up. I think if you are well trained they give you a small boost. But they can’t bridge fitness/lack of training.

As you can see, i am simply not trained for 10km. It is my absolute nemesis distance, i always crumble. I have no speed endurance and i have done no trianing that is remotely similar to preparation for a 10km in the last few years. Did the shoes limit my (already massive) fade? I’ll never know.

I’m naturally gifted with quite a lot of raw speed. i think this allows me to just about blag a 5km on low mileage and fitness. the shoes definitely helped with that. Anything longer, and i’d need to train properly/actually train to make an informed decision.

I’m going to give them one more blast at a parkrun either this Sat or next before they go back. Then i need to have a think about whether or not i buy them for real. One factor is will i actually do any races this year that are worthy of the shoes? It seems a bit extravagant (in my current financial position) for the odd parkrun! My winter focus is a December 100 miler. So do i find some shorter race (up to 1/2 mara) this summer/autumn to really knuckle down and train for?

Bit of a ramble, as are most of my posts. But they do weirdly help me to crystalise my thoughts. Sometimes. :sweat_smile:

I originally thought this. I now think ā€œhorribleā€ is a slight overstatement, but they’re certainly better at speed.

Clearly they can’t just suddenly create fitness, but I disagree with the ā€œdo not speed you up partā€. My experience is they do. They change my running form, which obviously has potential for knock-on consequences (both good and bad). My stride length increases, for the same effort, but cadence goes down. Overall, the increased stride length (at the same HR/RPE) dominates, and I go faster for the same (perceived) effort.

I definitely put my HM pb in March down to these shoes. I don’t believe I was in anywhere near as good HM shape as I was when I first broke 80mins 12m before. Yet, the shoes made me go a fraction faster, and so masked that reduced fitness.

For me i didn’t find that. i have naturally quick ish cadence, and that hasn’t altered. I definitely don’t feel like i’m running faster, but i feel that i fade slightly less and i hold onto my form for slightly longer. It’s hard because there are so many variables and i only have a small window of opportunity to assess.

When it came to my full on sprint finish at the end of my parkrun, they just didn’t suit my running style at all. I wouldn’t say they held me back, but they just didn’t feel right at full speed. When i sprint i am fully up on my toes (i think) and the shoe just felt weird. Now obviously that element of a race is only ever going to be 100-200m or so. But i think it still highlights that they won’t work for everyone in every instance.

When i’m running slow the fact that they don’t fit my foot shape is really noticeable, so they are genuinely horrible for me. It feels like the curve in the middle of the shoe is poking into the soft fleshy bit of my midfoot.

Having said what I said, which to be fair, was all just inferred outcomes from some training runs, I decided I should probably do a more direct comparison of the two HM efforts I mentioned, which at least allows more of a like for like assessment.

The key difference was 2019 had more wind and the ground was a bit more wet. It rained that morning, whereas 2018 was still greasy as it was the week of the Beast from the East, and on the same day Bath Half got cancelled.

In actual fact, the differences seem less than I expected. Cadence is down, but only 3spm, and stride length is up, but only by 4cm per stride, which is about 2.5%. You can also see I had more ā€œbounceā€, with vertical oscillation up 0.6cm, which is actually a 6% increase. Similarly, I was getting ā€œoff the floorā€ faster, as GCT was down 11ms, so nearly a 6% reduction. All of this with HR numbers down year on year.

So the perceived effects are there, they’re just not as dramatic as maybe I thought.

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Soooo… as some of my strava buddies have seen, i finally christened mine this morning. I have a half marathon sunday, first race since winter X country. No idea what kind of shape i’m in so plan to start at 6m50s/m and try and speed up progressively… and smash the last 5k if these shoes live up to the hype. As i said on strava ā€˜everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face’ :grinning:

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It’ll be 'reit twhat, I’m positive.

So another thumbs up from me. I cant give much more than a very unscientific report as i had no idea what shape i was in for the half but i managed to hold myself back at 4.06/km for about 5km which felt very easy. By just past halfway i was running sub 4min/k and by 15km, sub 3.50s which is way below my half pb pace… and i shouldnt be anywhere near pb pace. I did start to flag slightly in the last mile but finished in 1.24.21 which was 2 minutes quicker than what had been my target. I’ve run low 1.22 before for half so its hard to say how much the shoes contributed but ive rarely, if ever, felt so comfortable at race pace. DOMs today feel at 50% of what they should for a hard half.
These shoes feel weird at first but really do come into their own at pace. I wouldnt ever use them to train, just keep them under lock and key for big road races. As i picked my way up the field i was very aware it was mainly ā€˜no-vapor’ runners dropping past me. I finished in 31st. I reckon the top 30 all had them on…

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I think I might break mine out of cold storage this week for my long run on Thursday; the legs will still be a bit tired from the 113 yesterday, so it will be interesting to see the net effect of residual fatigue and taking it a bit more steady versus the ā€˜MAGIC’ of the Vapors :rofl:

That sounds like the exact feelings I had following my half marathon in them.

Well done!

Really? I’m sparing mine for sure, but need to make sure they aren’t going to give me issues on the big day. Then they go back into the box until 28 July.

No i wouldnt think i’ll train in them. I could, however, definitely see how they could be used ā€˜to spare the legs’ for high volume Ironman ā„¢ triafleets though… but thats not me. Maybe as i get closer to marathon day and have bigger volume weeks and accumulated fatigue i’ll be tempted, we’ll see. There is certainly something about them that would seem to spare the legs a bit more than ā€˜running easier’ would. That said… they dont feel right at lower speed to me either so perhaps not. I’m pretty lucky with shoes, i would have been quite happy wearing these straight out of the box on sunday. I have a feeling the ā€˜low hanging fruit’ has been taken now… how much more can the Next% really improve on these, other than in the longevity stakes (which clearly will only be a consideration for Nike when a more durable competititor appears) ?

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Hi all,

any idea when the Next% are going to be released?

After the Edinburgh half I figured I need something else (in a non-Lance Armstrong way) to beat 1:25.

Cheers!

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No!!! I’ve a disc wheel sized hole burning in my pocket for them!

Just another n=1 observation
Last long run before IM Frankfurt this morning.

It’s a 10-11 mile loop to my house and then 10-11 miles to work (depending on route)

Last week, I had misery during the second half of the run and just wanted it to be over.
Averaged 7:41 per mile (9:1 run/walk ratio - yep still using it) but with some not great ones in there (about 5 between 7:55 and 8:10)

Today, I switched out my Zoom Fly for the 4% after 11 miles

Can not stress enough the difference.

Although I still knew I was running, the RPE and fatigue felt was way less.

Mile 17 (straight section along a road)

Last week - 7:29
Today - 6:54

Even the last mile which has a nasty hill in it was ā€œeasierā€

They’re now back in the box until the 30th

Ha, today’s weather has meant I’ve left mine in the box today for the long run home; will be using the Zoom Flys again.

I’m terrified of using-up the shoe’s magic. Silly isn’t it :upside_down_face:

SHIT JUST GOT REAL…
(Email was in my spam box - just saw the release on Dezeen)
Challenge started on Monday…so doesn’t include my 113 run :sob:
I’ll also have to run parkrun ā€œslowlyā€ as runs under 3;40/km don’t count.

I’m 41km off